Tail warning radar on P-51 ?
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fubar57
General
Someone just posted something about this very recently. I'll see if I can find the post.
Geo
Geo
fubar57
General
From "Pilot Training Manual for the Mustang P-51"
From this site....http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/start-finish-builds/geedees-p-51d-cockpit-project-18113-34.html Starting from Post #498
Geo
From this site....http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/start-finish-builds/geedees-p-51d-cockpit-project-18113-34.html Starting from Post #498
Geo
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Have a look at Geedee's thread on his 1:1 P-51 cockpit, in the modelling section, and you'll see the warning bell, and a drawing of the antenna, which was mounted near the top of the fin. Off hand, I can't remember the dates, but it came into service in the ETO either in very late 1944, or early 1945, and was, of course, in service from then, until war's end, in the PTO.
This was a fairly basic piece of equipment, which warned of the presence of an aircraft directly to the rear, with a relatively narrow arc each side of the center line, and did not distinguish between friend or foe. Also, at lower altitudes ( I think below around 4,000 feet), the effects of 'ground return' could activate the radar, setting off the alarm bell.
This was a fairly basic piece of equipment, which warned of the presence of an aircraft directly to the rear, with a relatively narrow arc each side of the center line, and did not distinguish between friend or foe. Also, at lower altitudes ( I think below around 4,000 feet), the effects of 'ground return' could activate the radar, setting off the alarm bell.
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drgondog
Major
I know that the last block P-51D-20/-25NA and corresponding P-51K's had the AN/APS-13 tail warning radar. Positioned on top 1/3 of the vertical stab in front of rudder.
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
glennasher
Senior Airman
According to Bill Dunn's book, he hated the thing. He claimed it added 400 lbs. to the tail of the aircraft and didn't provide enough benefit to justify the weight addition, not to mention COG. etc.
- Thread starter
- #9
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
from the conversations i have had...they couldnt use it while flying formation...except for maybe tail end charlie. when they spotted the enemy...dropped their tanks...turned on guns...etc..they forgot to turn that on. if they did turn it on...everytime a plane past through the cone the bell would go off and a lot just found it too distracting. they relied more on the mirrors and their wing man.
Distracting, a bit like the parking sensors on my car then! Some Lancasters carried a tail warning and gun laying system called Village Inn which took the shape of a pointed dome and poked out from the rear fuselage. I think the P51 radar to be more like Monica which was also used by Bomber Command and which was abandoned after it was discovered that German night fighters were attracted to its beams.
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Mike Williams
Senior Airman
- 572
- Oct 19, 2006
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Village Inn wasn't so much a tail warning radar, as in 'Boozer' or 'Monica', but a gun laying system (AGLT) for the rear turret, using radio/radar and infra red. The twin lamps in the nose blister of later Lancs were infra red emitting, and intended as identification of a 'friendly' aircraft to the AGLT, to prevent the rear gunner locking on and opening fire.
Surely a typo?
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
It has to be or Mr. Dunn was very wrong (no disrespect) According this link the APS-13 (British ANAPS-13) weighed 20 pounds and was installed on the Tempest as well.
The Hawker Tempest Page
drgondog
Major
No way possible to add 400 pounds aft of the tail wheel and fly the airplane in a 51. The 85 gallons of fuel with a moment arm of a couple of feet made the 51 hoggish until the fuel burned down - just imagine a permanent 400 pound weight Anywhere from aft of the fuel tank to the tailwheel. It 'looks' like it weighs between 10-20 pounds max.
BTW Dunn's only possible exposure to the AN/APS-13 would have been with P-47D in 406FG. IIRC he wasn't flying much combat when he went to China after ETO duties complete.
glennasher
Senior Airman
He didn't like the aft fuel tank, either. Just going by what he wrote. I hadn't even heard of the tail-warning radar until then. 400 lbs. is what he claimed, I couldn't say how much it weighed, since I didn't know about it until reading the book.
Photos of the very early bombs show the radar antennae and replicas include them to varying degrees of accuracy.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Sounds like a heck of weight, even if it included the wiring, actual 'black box', bell and switches etc, spread throughout the airframe from tail to cockpit. Maybe a total of 40 Pounds ?
