The Airbus 330 - Possibility of Electrical/Computer Problems

[syscom3]

Click on the link to read the whole story.

With its human-proof computer systems, it is the most technically advanced aircraft in the world. So why has the Airbus 330's gleaming new fleet been so dogged by technical problems... and disturbing evidence of flawed cabling been so comprehensively ignored?

Read more: LIVE SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: The series of mysterious Airbus 330 accidents culminating in tragic loss of Air France Flight 447 | Mail Online

 

[lingo]

Click on the link to read the whole story.




Read more: LIVE SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: The series of mysterious Airbus 330 accidents culminating in tragic loss of Air France Flight 447 | Mail Online

The press loves drama and conspiracy. Now remind me, what sort of aircraft was N387SW?

 

[syscom3]

The press loves drama and conspiracy. Now remind me, what sort of aircraft was N387SW?

What does that have to do with this story?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Exactly what does that have to do with this topic?

 

[lingo]

Exactly what does that have to do with this topic?

The topic seems to be about rubbishing the Airbus A330 with the information coming from a newspaper. I would be far more impressed with information from the regulatory authorities, or the users and maintainers.
Long experience has taught me not to believe everything the dailies tell us. The bit about the A 340 had nothing to do with the A 330. It was all to do with the unbelievable stupidity of the airlines ground staff who disregarded regulations and accepted procedures.

It wouldn't take a towering genius to find a catalogue of incidents and problems suffered by any aircraft type. The airline industry is forever sending out preventative advice to its users - and rightly so, but if it all got into the hands of the press to misinterpret there would be far fewer bums on seats as the public would stay away in droves! I mentioned the Boeing 737 N387SW that was fortunate to escape from a decompression caused by the skin structure failing. Just think how that might have been reported by the media.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The topic seems to be about rubbishing the Airbus A330 with the information coming from a newspaper. I would be far more impressed with information from the regulatory authorities, or the users and maintainers.
Long experience has taught me not to believe everything the dailies tell us. The bit about the A 340 had nothing to do with the A 330. It was all to do with the unbelievable stupidity of the airlines ground staff who disregarded regulations and accepted procedures.

It wouldn't take a towering genius to find a catalogue of incidents and problems suffered by any aircraft type. The airline industry is forever sending out preventative advice to its users - and rightly so, but if it all got into the hands of the press to misinterpret there would be far fewer bums on seats as the public would stay away in droves! I mentioned the Boeing 737 N387SW that was fortunate to escape from a decompression caused by the skin structure failing. Just think how that might have been reported by the media.

No the thread was a topic about the Airbus A330.

You need to chill out. Anytime anyone states anything about the British or Europe in general you automatically go on the defensive. I could post a story about European weather and you would find someway to take offense to it. It is rather annoying. Would it make you feel better if I posted one about Boeing...???

Just chill out...

 

[Maximowitz]

He's got a point actually. The only thing I'd believe written in the Daily Mail is the sports results. And I'd check them afterwards too.

It's known as the "Daily Bigot" in the UK due to its rather parochial right wing viewpoint.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

He's got a point actually. The only thing I'd believe written in the Daily Mail is the sports results. And I'd check them afterwards too.

It's known as the "Daily Bigot" in the UK due to its rather parochial right wing viewpoint.

That may be true, but the thread was not written as an attack on Airbus.

 

[gumbyk]

Lingo, ignore the hype and hysteria in the opening of the stroy.
There is some element of plausibility in this. Its about a string on uncommanded control inputs on the Airbus series of aircraft, possibly caused by aging wiring. It does happen.

I have had some experience in trying to track down the same sort of issue, in a light GA aircraft autopilot system, and it was implssoble to reproduce the fault on the ground. It was only by rewiring the nav and autopilot systems that we corrected the problem. Never did find exactly where the issue was though. I can only imagine what it would have been like had it been in a high-performance, or large air transport aircraft.

 

[comiso90]

That may be true, but the thread was not written as an attack on Airbus.

With a title like "The Airbus 330 - an accident waiting to happen"

I think it is... that's not my definition of non-biased.

I wonder if it's safety record is better that the 737... seems like a bunch of those have crashed but there are a lot more in service..

 

[BombTaxi]

Like max said, I wouldn't believe a word the Mail prints. They are probably having a pop at airbus precisely becaus it is a European comsortium - they hate that kind of thing with a passion.

 

[syscom3]

Read the story.

There seems to be more than a few instances where the plane did something totally unexpected while in flight.

 

[BombTaxi]

There are several instances of unexpected autopilot disconnections - but I don't see anything in the report except speculation as to causes.

The A340 incident is irrelevant - as lingo said, ignorance of proper procedure is to blame for that write-off. I get the feeling it was included so that the MoS could put in a dramatic picture of a samshed-up Airbus. As for the wiring, it is a possible cause, but so is software failure. Much of the criticism is drawn from statements made by lawyers representing the families of the AF447 victims. While I do not doubt their competence, they are hardly an objective source from which to take an opinion. They will naturally be trying to paint Airbus in the worst possible light, and their bashing of a European consortium fits well with long-established Daily Mail editorial policy.

This section is pure hype

'On an Airbus, nothing in the cockpit is real. Everything is electronic. The throttles, rudder and brake pedals and the side-stick are hooked to rheostats that talk to a computer, which talks to an electric hydraulic servo valve, which in turn – hopefully – moves something.'

This guy could be talking about most modern commercial or military aircraft, and the fact that the A330 is fly by wire makes it no more or less likely to crash than any other type. No official conclusions have been drawn from the QF72 incident either (nor the NWA one) - what the Mail has printed is merely conjecture - logical I admit, but conjecture nonetheless. Likwise, while I appreciate the grief of those in the victim's association, for them to suggest a coverup by the BEA and Airbus is pure speculation, and not a little hyperbolic. But again, it's the kind of thing that sells newspapers. I do not believe for a second that the BEA, or the FAA or AAIB, would cover up a potentially lethal fault in an aicraft type if they knew for sure it existed.

AF447 was a tragedy, and the cause needs to be found. But to present this piece of Sunday sensationalist jornalism as a serious contribution to the debate is, I believe, somewhat spurious.

Cheers

BT

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I wonder if it's safety record is better that the 737... seems like a bunch of those have crashed but there are a lot more in service..

also consider flight hours

 

[comiso90]

also consider flight hours

maintaince, age and the rest... I cringe when I hear about a 737 going down knowing that, for many, it reflects poorly on Boeing and American aircraft. Many dont consider that the lapsed inspections and haphazard maintainace by poorly regulated carriers in backwards countries.

.

.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

With a title like "The Airbus 330 - an accident waiting to happen"

I think it is... that's not my definition of non-biased.

I wonder if it's safety record is better that the 737... seems like a bunch of those have crashed but there are a lot more in service..

Yeah I can see where you are coming from with that.

 

[Colin1]

Like max said, I wouldn't believe a word the Mail prints. They are probably having a pop at airbus precisely becaus it is a European comsortium - they hate that kind of thing with a passion.

The Mail?
Bloody Nationalist newspaper in all but name. The wartime owner, Lord Rothwell or someone, big chums with both Hitler and Mussolini, even sent a telegram to Hitler conveying his support for the invasion of the Sudetenland; Rothwell was hoping that Hitler would come to be liked and admired in the UK.
He was also a big fan of Mosley, describing him as a level-headed man of good common sense and penning a very favourable article on the Blackshirts.
One of the Mail's senior editors even wrote a book defending both Hitler and Mussolini in the late 30s, don't recall the name of the editor or the book but you get some historical idea of why the Mail is positioned where it is in the political spectrum.

I wouldn't wipe my *ss on the Mail, I certainly wouldn't read it.

 

[Amsel]

Safety Group Urges Airbus Fixes - WSJ.com

From 2008

LOS ANGELES -- U.S. aviation safety watchdogs, concerned about severe electrical problems that have blacked out cockpit displays on dozens of Airbus jetliners over the years, urged regulators on both sides of the Atlantic to mandate aircraft fixes and enhanced pilot training to alleviate such hazards.

Recommendations released by the National Transportation Safety Board Wednesday cite 49 incidents over the years in which electrical problems caused various cockpit displays on widely-used Airbus A319 and A320 to suddenly stop functioning and temporarily go blank during flight. According to the board, seven of those incidents resulted in the simultaneous loss of all six electric cockpit displays -- something that safety experts originally believed was virtually impossible.

The recommendations stem from an investigation of a United Airlines A320 that had to return shortly after takeoff from Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey in January, because half of its electronic cockpit displays went blank and several aircraft systems became inoperative. All radios stopped functioning, along with collision-avoidance systems and landing-gear position indicators.

The United plane landed safely, but the incident prompted heightened scrutiny of electrical problems in Airbus aircraft. Three years earlier, a British Airways A319 en route from London to Budapest suffered a failure of five out of six cockpit displays at 20,000 feet. The cockpit went dark and air-traffic controllers lost track of the flight. Most of the systems returned in about 90 seconds.

Based on Airbus data cited by the U.S. safety board, 16 other aircraft lost at least five of their onboard displays over the years in separate incidents.

Another from 2006
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Airbus.NTSB.FAA.2.234130.html


From NTSB

************************************************************

NTSB ADVISORY

************************************************************

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
June 25, 2009

************************************************************

NTSB INVESTIGATING TWO RECENT INCIDENTS INVOLVING POSSIBLE A-330 SPEED AND ALTITUDE INDICATION ANOMALIES

************************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating two recent incidents in which airspeed and altitude indications in the cockpits of Airbus A-330 aircraft may have malfunctioned.

The first incident occurred May 21, 2009, when TAM Airlines flight 8091 (Brazilian registration PT-MVB) flying from Miami, Florida to Sao Paulo, Brazil, experienced a loss of primary speed and altitude information while in cruise flight. Initial reports indicate that the flight crew noted an abrupt drop in indicated outside air temperature, followed by the loss of the Air Data Reference System and disconnections of the autopilot and autothrust, along with the loss of speed and altitude information. The flight crew used backup instruments and primary data was restored in about 5 minutes. The flight landed at Sao Paulo with no further incident and there were no injuries and damage.

The Safety Board has become aware of another possibly similar incident that occurred on June 23 on a Northwest Airlines A-330 (registration unknown) flying between Hong Kong and Tokyo. The aircraft landed safely in Tokyo; no injuries or damage was reported. Data recorder information, Aircraft Condition Monitoring System messages, crew statements and weather information are being collected by NTSB investigators.

Further information on both incidents will be released when it becomes available.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The A319/320 EFIS black out problem has been well known and documented for a long time. I saw it myself on an A319 that was being pulled out of flyable storage. During an engine ground run everything went blank. We simply turned everything off and re-powered up. Everything came back on. My father in law experienced the same thing when flying for Continental.

There are limited "steam gauges" that will enable the pilots to still fly the aircraft while they trouble shoot the problem.

Personally I see reports like this as a two-sided sword. In many cases the media puts out sensationalized and inaccurate information on aircraft accidents and incidents. On the other hand the media could press attention to a problem forcing manufacturers and regulatory agencies to act on a problem. Case in point, Aloha Airlines in 1988 when the upper cab of a 737 blew out due to stress and corrosion. After that all commercial airliners were subjected to the implemented "Corrosion Prevention Control Program" or "CPCP." This program has identified probably hundreds of corrosion and stress defects in numerous commercial airliners.

 

[Amsel]

Is it possible that the same issues have surfaced in the A-330? The current NTSB investigations makes me curious about that