The airplane that did the most to turn the tide of the war.

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First, I think we should again at least acknowledge that we have to consider the merits and significance of the Theaters and time periods which were and weren't significant.

Early war Japanese conquests in the Pacific were characterized by highly effective use of overwhelming force and surprise.

If the Japanese had been able to continue this kind of action a bit more, and if the Germans had won El Alamein which he have also been discussing, it might have gotten ... dicey for the Allies.
More than dicey; disastrous.
Consider that a crushing loss at Midway could have meant the loss of all three of our carriers to no Japanese losses. This makes the Guadalcanal operation untenable, resulting in interdiction of the supply lines to Australia, and potentially the loss of Hawaii. With supplies to Australia cut off, Japanese success in New Guinea is likely, putting the Aussies in a state of siege.
The still undamaged Kido Butai can now concentrate its affections on Ceylon and the Indian Ocean, eventually threatening a linkup with the German controlled middle east. This eliminates the Axis Achilles Heel of petroleum, and puts a whole different tilt to the strategic balance.
At this point, many "neutral" nations, or those philosophically sympathetic to the Allies, but physically removed from the fighting, are going to notice which way the winds are blowing and it's going to become harder for us to obtain the exotic resources needed to make our high tech war machine perform. Tropical wood, natural rubber, exotic minerals to make alloys of steel and aluminum, and myriad other resources from around the globe will no longer be at our beck and call.
So now the Essex class carriers are coming on line with their Hellcats, Helldivers, and Avengers, and it's time to start clawing our way back to Tokyo, Berlin, and Rome starting from our own shores, not some point halfway there.
How does your war of attrition look now?
Cheers,
Wes
 
What is it with you? Think I was born yesterday?..
You sound that way.

What the Hell is a THEORETICAL AVIATOR?
"Theoretical Aviator (noun): A person who has read all the literature, watched all the YouTube videos, and played all the flightsim games and is able to lecture endlessly on flying, but makes himself airsick whenever he touches the controls of an actual airplane. Hasn't been there, hasn't done it, and is clueless as to what it's really like and is unaware of his own cluelessness."

I have been there, I have done it, and that includes the "clueless and unaware of it" part too.
Cool off, chill out, and hang in there, you'll get over it in due course.
BTW, my draft number in that same lottery was 55, so I had to go play Uncle's game, which became a life changing experience and a highly educational one. Never learned so much so fast, not even in four years of college.
Cheers,
Wes
 
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Winning at Midway wouldn't stop the Aussies beating the Japs on the Kokoda Trail or at Milne Bay.
 
At sea, the FAA had Sea Hurricanes and Martlets as well optimised for low altitude unlike the American Wildcats. The Sea Hurricane Ib being superior in performance to the A6M2, their torpedo bombing crews well trained in night attacks. Just because they didn't clash doesn't make the outcome a foregone conclusion.
 


I am not confident a Sea Hurricane could handle a Zero. Martlet as we know is fairly comparable but I'm not sure how many they had in 1942, none seem to be involved in the Ceylon debacle.
 
Admiral Canaris, an old pal of Franco advised him that the Germans would lose WW2 so Franco never went after Gibraltar. Losses in the Pacific still don't save the Axis in the Med. The Brits would simply have deployed their fleet to the Indian Ocean and the 'soft underbelly' of the Axis may not have been in attacked in 1943. The Aussies would still have beaten the Japs in New Guinea.
 
I am not confident a Sea Hurricane could handle a Zero. Martlet as we know is fairly comparable but I'm not sure how many they had in 1942, none seem to be involved in the Ceylon debacle.
The Wildcat was technically inferior to the A6M2, but the pilots were first class, the Sea Hurricane Ib was superior to the A6M2 at low altitude, and the pilots I'm sure just as good as the USN ones, if not better.
 
There was always the British Fleet in the Indian Ocean to contend with. The World doesn't revolve around America.

Needless to say. But the point I was making was that the British Fleet in the Indian Ocean seemed to be melting away like snow under boiling water on contact with the IJN fleet - case in point being the Ceylon raid. Maybe they could have got some Martlets in place and some more modern ships etc. but I'm not so sure.

I also don't think the Aussies could have held on in New Guinea etc. if the Americans had been badly defeated and backed off from the area, allowing the IJN to concentrate their might.

Of course it's all speculation.
 
The Wildcat was technically inferior to the A6M2, but the pilots were first class, the Sea Hurricane Ib was superior to the A6M2 at low altitude, and the pilots I'm sure just as good as the USN ones, if not better.

Like I said, I'd need some serious convincing that the Sea Hurricane could hold it's own with an A6M2, let alone that it was better. Maybe Sea Hurricanes didn't clash with Zeroes but plenty of land based Hurricanes clashed with both Zeroes and Ki 43s and they didn't do well. Hurricanes were also very short ranged, especially compared to an A6M, which would confer a major operational advantage to the Japanese. That and the fact that their bombers were inferior and dead meat if they were caught by fighters (night flying capability notwithstanding)

I would assume that the RN / FAA pilots would be well trained, the USN ones certainly seemed to be among the best available to the US - it was really training, Thach weave etc. which made the F4F a viable weapon against the A6M and Ki 43- that and it's generally better suitability for attrition warfare.

A lot of that hinged on the USN bomber being very effective, which again puts the emphasis back on the SBD for me.
 
Our fleet didn't melt away in the snow. They simply weren't stupid enough to engage in a daytime combat where they were outnumbered. Don't underestimate the Aussies, they fought better than the first lot of Americans that arrived in New Guinea, and its not the AIF that I'm talking about, its their Militia.
 
I'm not comparing manhood size, I agree the Aussies fought very well (in the sky and on the ground), and a lot of US Army units in the Pacific didn't especially early on (USMC seemed to better)

But Milne Bay etc. were a close run thing hinging largely on air superiority and excellent air support by the RAAF. You bring 3 or 4 IJN carriers to the fight air superiority goes away.

As for "melting away" - losing 31 ships and 40 aircraft and only taking out 20 aircraft in response is not a sustainable exchange rate.
 
Admittedly though the IJN had 3-1 odds in aircraft so that made a big difference. If the odds were more even it may have been less of a catastrophe. But that is kind of the whole point of the Midway defeat scenario, if the USN was pulled back to San Fransisco and Long Beach, the Japanese would have been able to concentrate more forces for those kind of knockout blows.
 


WOW.. Welcome Home !!
Hired a lot of Vietnam Vets .. and even a few former WW2 and KW Vets too that were all in technical and engineering fields.
Was interesting reading their resumes who worked on the early Curtis.

New guys from Iraq and Afghanistan I never say "thank you for your service. !"
To some that is Cringe Worthy and just want to walk away quietly.

Just better to just say welcome home !

Dan
 
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Welcome home is better.

The rest of that, I would delete, as it's too personal.

I'm sure you are a nice guy Dan, but if you have spent all that time in rough bar-rooms, studied martial arts etc, you know sometimes it's a good idea to take a couple of steps back. There are several guys on here who are pilots and some active duty or former military pilots. Many other mechanics, air controllers, all kinds of real world experience, aside from the historians amateur and otherwise. A lot to learn.

And amigo, don't over-expose yourself on the internet.
 
The Brits would simply have deployed their fleet to the Indian Ocean
And brought their carriers (only ships that count) full of aircrews used to Atlantic/Med tactical situations to face the Japanese. More snow to melt away. While the Brit carrier fighters might ON PAPER appear superior to their Japanese counterparts, if they're flown the way they were in the west, they're going to be in for a nasty surprise, as Singapore and Ceylon attest. And their huge deficit in range would likely prove decisive.
Cheers,
Wes
 
Navy fighter pilots are a superior breed, ha ha, like Eric Brown. Lets put it this way, if technical details had anything to do with it then the USN Wildcats should have been shot from the skies by the Jap Zero's. Singapore and Ceylon were an RAF fest.
 

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