The airplane that did the most to turn the tide of the war. (3 Viewers)

[NevadaK]

The bomber's advocate would point out that that blockade was itself greatly aided by B-29 mining operations. I do agree with your point, and think the submarine's contribution to our victory is always overshadowed by the Bombs being dropped.

Agreed, but since this is an aviation focused site the discussion has centered on aircraft. Overall, the bombing survey presents a fairly comprehensive review of what factors contributed to the victory over Japan. If you haven't read it, here is a link to the summary report.

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/AUPress/Books/B_0020_SPANGRUD_STRATEGIC_BOMBING_SURVEYS.pdf

I also came across this recently which is informative and talks about the overall war and air war against Japan in the last few months of the war:

Chapter 14: Japan's Surrender

As well as a good overview of the proposed invasion:

Chapter 13: "DOWNFALL"- The Plan for the Invasion of Japan

The casualty projections associated with an invasion of Japan vary widely and seemed to be based on whether the source was inclined for the invasion to happen or not. The accepted most likely projection assumed that the casualty rate for Okinawa was an accurate prediction for the first 30 days of the Kyushu landings and would have resulted in around 300,000 US casualties during that time frame.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Is there any aircraft that if in (reasonable) abundance could have turned the tide for France? The quick pick may be the Dewoitine D.520, but I don't think France was defeated because their M.S.406 and MB.152 were uncompetitive with the Bf 109s. What of ground attack, like the Bréguet 693? Or modern, fast bombers like the LeO 45?

View attachment 777793

I don't think any aircraft could have changed the outcome for France. Their ultimate undoing was not an issue of material, but a complete reliance on archaic and outdated tactics, and poor strategic thinking. The Germans for the most part learned from 1914-1918, and the French continued to dwell in it.

French strategic leadership was abysmal, and their military intelligence was poor. Operationally and tactically they failed for these reasons. The German capitalized on it quickly.

 

[pbehn]

I don't think any aircraft could have changed the outcome for France. Their ultimate undoing was not an issue of material, but a complete reliance on archaic and outdated tactics, and poor strategic thinking. The Germans for the most part learned from 1914-1918, and the French continued to dwell in it.

French strategic leadership was abysmal, and their military intelligence was poor. Operationally and tactically they failed for these reasons. The German capitalized on it quickly.

I dont think there is a better example of a nation preparing to fight the last war not the next.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont think there is a better example of a nation preparing to fight the last war not the next.

Could not have said it better.

Honestly, France lost the Battle of France before it even started. In fact when Churchill visited Paris on May 16th (6 days after the battle started) he was practically informed it was over.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And that's nothing against the French troops and airmen. I think they fought as best and hard as they could. They were simply failed by their leadership.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

We can disagree. The bombing survey's opinion is that the B-29 bombing campaign effectively destroyed the Japanese population's will to fight as well as crippled Japanese industry. That was the foundation of the surrender in 1945. Otherwise the war goes to 1948 or 1949, possibly ending in a stalemate.

The bombing survey picked bombing as the most important factor. I'm shocked.

 

[GrauGeist]

If it's any indication of French fighter pilot's ability, their Hawk 75 accounted for over 1/3 of all Luftwaffe losses out of all the types France had available.

However, even if the Armeé de l'Air had nothing but Hawk 75s, it still would not have stopped the German's advance.

 

[NevadaK]

If it's any indication of French fighter pilot's ability, their Hawk 75 accounted for over 1/3 of all Luftwaffe losses out of all the types France had available.

However, even if the Armeé de l'Air had nothing but Hawk 75s, it still would not have stopped the German's advance.

Maybe if the French had B-29's……

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Maybe if the French had B-29's……

Where you gonna put the wine cellar?

 

[buffnut453]

Where you gonna put the wine cellar?

Tradition says it should go beneath the kitchen....naturally!

 

[special ed]

Imagine the Boeing 377 airliner with French roundels, bay windows across the lower deck & fixed landing gear - a definite winner!

 

[Admiral Beez]

Imagine the Boeing 377 airliner with French roundels, bay windows across the lower deck & fixed landing gear - a definite winner!

What a way to travel.

Inside A 1947 Boeing 377 Stratocruiser, The Largest And Fastest Aircraft In Commercial Service – Design You Trust — Design Daily Since 2007

The Stratocruiser’s lower-deck lounge had a bar where passengers could buy a cocktail or soft drink. After World War II, Boeing reentered the commercial market

designyoutrust.com

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Tradition says it should go beneath the kitchen....naturally!

Let's see ... nose gear, front belly turret, bomb bay, bomb bay, rear turret ... I'm afraid the buttery will be back by the loo ...

 

[buffnut453]

Let's see ... nose gear, front belly turret, bomb bay, bomb bay, rear turret ... I'm afraid the buttery will be back by the loo ...

Buttery near the loo...sounds about right!

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

What a way to travel.

Inside A 1947 Boeing 377 Stratocruiser, The Largest And Fastest Aircraft In Commercial Service – Design You Trust — Design Daily Since 2007

The Stratocruiser’s lower-deck lounge had a bar where passengers could buy a cocktail or soft drink. After World War II, Boeing reentered the commercial market

designyoutrust.com

Do you mean to say that there was a time when airlines didn't insist we be able to fold up like origami?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm afraid the buttery will be back by the loo ...

I thought that was more Greek than French?

 

[NevadaK]

What a way to travel.

Inside A 1947 Boeing 377 Stratocruiser, The Largest And Fastest Aircraft In Commercial Service – Design You Trust — Design Daily Since 2007

The Stratocruiser’s lower-deck lounge had a bar where passengers could buy a cocktail or soft drink. After World War II, Boeing reentered the commercial market

designyoutrust.com

Imagine, French bombing flight togs design by Chanel

 

[Admiral Beez]

What about the Bf 109. Until the arrival of the Fw 190 the Luftwaffe had just the Bf 109 to rely on over France, Britain, North Africa and the USSR.

There were three other aircraft competing against the Bf 109: Arado Ar 80 V3, Focke-Wulf Fw 159 V3 and the Heinkel He 112 V4. Only the last seems to have any chance against the latest Allied fighters of 1939-41.

Remove the Bf 109 and put the Arado Ar 80 in its place. How goes Germany's early war?

 

[pinehilljoe]

I dont think there is a better example of a nation preparing to fight the last war not the next.

Very True. The French Air Force fought the Battle of France like it did the Western Front during the Great War. Fighters roamed the skys looking for an opportunity. The French had nothing like the Integrated Weapon System of Fighter Command, with its Radar Network, Centralized Combat Information Center, and excellent communications.

 

[Shortround6]

Heinkel He 112 V4. Only the last seems to have any chance against the latest Allied fighters of 1939-41.

It would have a very rough time against the MS 406.
MS 406 is about 14% heavier but has about 23% more power.

Remove the Bf 109 and put the Arado Ar 80 in its place. How goes Germany's early war?

Germany went to war with very few Jumo powered Bf 109s in the front lines. Germany could have put DB 601s in the He 112 and the Arado Ar 80 but then we have two planes that are far removed from any specifications that we have access to.