The Battle of Kursk - Biggest clash of armor.

parsifal · Sep 5, 2008

My Russian connection...my wifes grandfather, the Russian Cavalryman

The picture is from early 1941 just before Alexander (that was his name) was married. He was already a battle hardened veteran having been engaged against the japanese at khakin Gol in 1939. Just looking at the steely look in his eyes (which he never lost) one can see the absolute iron nerve in his belly

JugBR · Sep 5, 2008

parsifal, thanx for share it with us m8 !

Thorlifter · Sep 5, 2008

What a cool pic to have of your grandfather-in-law. Thanks for sharing.

m kenny · Sep 5, 2008

Erich said:
top pic CB are Pz IV H's with Schurzen from the 3rd SS, please note the black III near the Balkenkreuz on the rear engine plate,

In the top photo the tanks are all Pz III. The engine deck layout is the giveaway.

SoD Stitch · Sep 5, 2008

m kenny said:
In the top photo the tanks are all Pz III. The engine deck layout is the giveaway.

That's interesting; I didn't know they put Schurzen on the III's, I thought they just put it on late-model IV's. But you're right, that's definitely a III judging by the engine decking and the exhaust layout.

Erich · Sep 5, 2008

my mistake, thank you gents for the correction please note the Tank nummer on the back of the turret shield. many times the III's were in the Stab Kompanies, as communique' vehicles II 8 or is it another number indicated ?

Ramirezzz · Sep 5, 2008

parsifal said:
My Russian connection...my wifes grandfather, the Russian Cavalryman

The picture is from early 1941 just before Alexander (that was his name) was married. He was already a battle hardened veteran having been engaged against the japanese at khakin Gol in 1939. Just looking at the steely look in his eyes (which he never lost) one can see the absolute iron nerve in his belly

my grandfather was been engaged there too. He often told me stories how unbelievable tough the Japanese soldiers were, and how hard it was to capture their positions.

mkloby · Sep 5, 2008

Parsifal - great pics and thanks for sharing.

Ramirezzz · Sep 5, 2008

SoD Stitch said:
Gee, who do you think's gonna win this battle? The five or six hardened Wehrmacht soldiers in the foreground, or the angry mob of 50 or 60 Russian soldiers headed their way? I'd say the barrel of that MG34 is pretty hot right about now . . . .

BTW it's not a typical Stalingrad infantry assault pictured here. Russians as well as Germans used small squads with heavy firepower there.

parsifal · Sep 5, 2008

I feel i am in a unique position when it comes to my family heritage. I am an Australian, with my own grandfather being a Light Horseman who fought at Gallipoli, and palestine in the "Great" War. My mums second husband (my step father , I guess, although I was an adult when they married) was a German machine gunner who was attached to the 373rd Div of the wehrmacht. Lastly, my wife is Russian, and before he died, I developed a strong friendship with my Grandfather in law. Talk about multi-cultural!!!

parsifal · Sep 5, 2008

A few more shots for you guuys, mostly of Soviet forces. Some of the photos have captions, if you can read them, and understand Russian, wouldnt mind a translation

This first photo is of Soviet Infantry and armour on the attack just after the Battle. The shot was taken, I believe, just north of either Kharkov or Belgorad

The second shot has a caption, which i cannot read. i believe, however, this is a shot of Soviet armour in the 'ring of stell", the encircling forces around SAtalingrad in late 1942-early 1943

The third shot is of Soviet infantry attacking in May 1943 (I think). Again it has a caption, which would be great if someone could interpret....

Lastly I have included a photo of stalingrad in wht I believe is the late summer or early Autumn of 1942, to give an idea of the devastation in the city

Ramirezzz · Sep 9, 2008

parsifal said:
The second shot has a caption, which i cannot read. i believe, however, this is a shot of Soviet armour in the 'ring of stell", the encircling forces around SAtalingrad in late 1942-early 1943

according to the caption here this is a tank desant entering the village at Cuban , autumn 1943.

The third shot is of Soviet infantry attacking in May 1943 (I think). Again it has a caption, which would be great if someone could interpret....

"assault on stanica Krymskaja, May 1943" . I believe it's in Kuban region as well.

parsifal · Sep 9, 2008

Thanks Ramirezz. I didnt think i could guess correctly. I stand corrected

parsifal · Sep 9, 2008

Ramirezzz said:
BTW it's not a typical Stalingrad infantry assault pictured here. Russians as well as Germans used small squads with heavy firepower there.

Yeah, ther are a lot of biases against the russian capability in places like this. They forget that the Russians for most of the war on the eastern front were attacking, and as a result their losses were inherently heavy.

Also more than 50% of Russian caualties were inflicted in the first 18 months of the war, thereafter, whilst russian casulaties were never light they were much closer to those being sustained by the Germans in the last half of the war

Ramirezzz · Sep 9, 2008

parsifal said:
Yeah, ther are a lot of biases against the russian capability in places like this. They forget that the Russians for most of the war on the eastern front were attacking, and as a result their losses were inherently heavy.

Also more than 50% of Russian caualties were inflicted in the first 18 months of the war, thereafter, whilst russian casulaties were never light they were much closer to those being sustained by the Germans in the last half of the war

no wonder - actually the only sources available to the western researchers in the postwar period were the German vet's memoirs.

Erich · Sep 9, 2008

ah is this thread about Kursk or Stalingrad or maybe I missed something along the way ?

E ♫

parsifal · Sep 10, 2008

Your right Erich, sorry, to get onto that detour...I have a question, do you have figures on the air battle losses for each side during Kursk. There are so many conflicting reports on this subject, so its a question that people are going to need patience to answer properly

Erich · Sep 10, 2008

I believe what you wish for is in book form but not sure if Christer Bergstrom and a Russian author have or are doing this or not. For me no I do not have anything for losses or kills except for individual JG histories. Nothing in total for the Schlacht units either.

Ramirezzz · Sep 10, 2008

Erich said:
I believe what you wish for is in book form but not sure if Christer Bergstrom and a Russian author have or are doing this or not.

I believe the latest volume of their book covers only a period till late 1942.

Ramirezzz · Sep 10, 2008

parsifal said:
Your right Erich, sorry, to get onto that detour...I have a question, do you have figures on the air battle losses for each side during Kursk. There are so many conflicting reports on this subject, so its a question that people are going to need patience to answer properly

according to my sources (although they seem to be a little bit outdated) during the period from 5.07 to 23.08.1943 the VVS lost 1934 planes.

The Battle of Kursk - Biggest clash of armor.

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