The Battle of Kursk - Biggest clash of armor.

[Njaco]

Sorry, I didnt mean, or imply to take it out on you (or anybody really, its not our fault), but it would just be nice to get a set of figures that seemed realistic.....

Never even took it that way. I was trying to contribute. I've read and seen too much info on Zitadelle to have come to an informed conclusion just yet and that after ....ohhh, how many years?! Numbers are numbers but the fact still remains that Germany wasted its strength on the battle with no appreciable results.

 

[Erich]

nothing appreciable except some different weapons systems both air and ground

 

[CharlesBronson]

KV-1S versus Tiger tank, a story from the Kursk battle.

 

[parsifal]

Hi Charles

great article...what is the source??

You seem to be suggesting (perhaps i misunderstand you), that the KV series was not further developed. That is surely not the case.....what about the KV-85, and the JS series, arent they based on the basic KV chassis????

 

[CharlesBronson]

Hmm, no quite, as you say the KV did was developed further, but the S variant was terminated after Kursk.

Source.

 

[hedgehogib]

Hey,
What was the main cause of the USSR victory in the battle? Share your opinion:] Maybe somebody has any links or can share some sources on this topic. (I am writing on this topic for my history class)

 

[Juha]

Hello
simply SU hand many more men, planes, guns and tanks and SUs. Also they achieved partial surprise in their attack against NE flank of Orel bulge, Germans had attacked where Soviets expected them. Hitler also lost his nerve when Allied landed in Sicily and SU played its charts well when it attacked in different parts of Eastern front. Some PzDs and 3rd SSPzGrD spent considerable times on trains moving from one hot spot to another. Remember also that for ex 3rd SSPzGrD suffered heavier losses at Mius after Kursk attack phase than during that attack phase (5-13.7.43)

Juha

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

Hello
simply SU hand many more men, planes, guns and tanks and SUs. Also they achieved partial surprise in their attack against NE flank of Orel bulge, Germans had attacked where Soviets expected them. Hitler also lost his nerve when Allied landed in Sicily and SU played its charts well when it attacked in different parts of Eastern front. Some PzDs and 3rd SSPzGrD spent considerable times on trains moving from one hot spot to another. Remember also that for ex 3rd SSPzGrD suffered heavier losses at Mius after Kursk attack phase than during that attack phase (5-13.7.43)

Juha

Agreed, even if the Germans had the better soldiers and weapons; the Russians had plenty of numbers to offset that.

 

[parsifal]

The Russians ought to be given credit for fighting a masterly defensive battle, followed by a devastating counteroffensive. Despite the continued technical superiority of the germans, this advantage counted for nothing in the final wash up. Russian general ship had come of age, and the proficiency of Soviet arms was now such that they could practice all arms warfare with success

 

[Njaco]

Heres a link.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ww2-general/battle-kursk-biggest-clash-armor-14796.html



along with these....

Kursk Page

Battle of Kursk: Germany's Lost Victory in World War II » HistoryNet

The Battle of Kursk

That last one is very interesting.

 

[parsifal]

That was a good thread NJ...I wonder if it could be ressurrected and this discussion transferred

 

[Njaco]

Yes it was. I don't know if the Mods can do that but its a good idea.

 

[rochie]

wow njaco that last link does go against everything i've known about kursk

 

[Njaco]

I know, opened my eyes. I'm just curious about his stats. He does appear to give some references.

 

[lesofprimus]

I can combine both these threads guys... Gimmie a minute...

 

[lesofprimus]

Combining threads....

 

[parsifal]

Thanks, thats great

 

[Njaco]

Thanks Dan!

 

[Burmese Bandit]

Regarding the German strategy for 1943, a much more elegant solution was proposed, by FM Manstein (almost sure I've got the right FM but will check). He proposed a general withdrawal of the entire southern part of the Eastern Front, and when the Russians advanced to take over the vacated ground, a sudden surprise counterattack "with the backhand". It was a daring and elegant solution, and should have been pursued.

 

[Erich]

a short note the last link listed on page 5 is drawn up from the experience by the SS Panzerkorps through the large and most out of print work by Sylvester Stadler whom wrote of his experiences and the 3 SS Panzergrendier Div's at Kursk. the truth was finally exposed through that old work and rewritten of sorts to fit into George Nipes book on Kursk and the Mius. Caidens work of which I own I left as a door step right after I first read the silly book giving total credit to the Soviets and noting huge losses sustained by the Germans which was total bunk.

the link goes into some details and the ending is of course the authors personal opinion. had the W-SS Armor been bolstered up they would of done the Mississippi two-step on the Soviets as they were wearing down, but obviously Hitler had bone head ideas about Italy.