It should be noted that the Guiberson was a radial aircraft engine. A significant number were produced but they do not appear to have been used in aircraft.
The Best Armored Troop Carrier/Reconnaissance Fighting Vehicle of WWII???
- Thread starter Lucky13
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It should be noted that the Guiberson was a radial aircraft engine. A significant number were produced but they do not appear to have been used in aircraft.
If the APC is the issue, then the Kangaroo is the best around. Just too bad for the Germans they haven't produce something like that based around Pz III or -IV chassis.
For recce work it's the British AEC series; the latest ones did have 75mm aboard.
For recce work it's the British AEC series; the latest ones did have 75mm aboard.
parsifal
Colonel
Often overlooked, I think the italian Autoblinda series are worth a second look.
They were certainly the most mobile in the desert, given their large sand tyre configurations, and for a 1941 vintage recon vehicle were exceptionally well armed with a number of combinations including MGs, 20mm, 37mm and most commonly 47mm+2 MG variations.
Ranges varied 9not least because of conditions) but typically could range from about 600 km through to over 1800 km
One important thing about recons is that they should not represent an over-investment. They should have the armament to fend off trouble, and the mobility to get in and out of trouble quickly. And if lost, they should be cheap enough to be considered expendable....which are all reasons why you dont use Tigers or Panthers for recon purposes
They were certainly the most mobile in the desert, given their large sand tyre configurations, and for a 1941 vintage recon vehicle were exceptionally well armed with a number of combinations including MGs, 20mm, 37mm and most commonly 47mm+2 MG variations.
Ranges varied 9not least because of conditions) but typically could range from about 600 km through to over 1800 km
One important thing about recons is that they should not represent an over-investment. They should have the armament to fend off trouble, and the mobility to get in and out of trouble quickly. And if lost, they should be cheap enough to be considered expendable....which are all reasons why you dont use Tigers or Panthers for recon purposes
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parsifal
Colonel
Good point about recons being low price stuff, parsifal. That' why I rate british stuff (Daimler cars, AEC series) so high. Plus they did have nice combat qualities.
AEC MkII receives a subjective bonus being part of the "1st armored brigade" of Tito's partisan army back in 1944, along with Stuarts and 6pdr AT guns*. One of AEC managed to destroy a former Italian tank, receiving 3 hits in the proces, but still managed to retreat in safety on its own power**.
Along with AB-41 and Csaba there goes Panhard 178, French vehicle that Germans also used.
* The "2nd armored brigade" was equipped by Soviets.
**Happened in Nevesinje, Bosnia, 30th november 1944; source Militaria Croatica 2001
AEC MkII receives a subjective bonus being part of the "1st armored brigade" of Tito's partisan army back in 1944, along with Stuarts and 6pdr AT guns*. One of AEC managed to destroy a former Italian tank, receiving 3 hits in the proces, but still managed to retreat in safety on its own power**.
Along with AB-41 and Csaba there goes Panhard 178, French vehicle that Germans also used.
* The "2nd armored brigade" was equipped by Soviets.
**Happened in Nevesinje, Bosnia, 30th november 1944; source Militaria Croatica 2001
parsifal
Colonel
Ther were two main types, the BA-10, and the BA-64. Both were workanle but not outstanding.
Perhaps the worst aspect of the Red Army's operations wwas its approach to battlefield recon. It was often don hapahazardly, or worse, not at all. The results were thyat the russians often attacked into the unknown, and heavier casulaties were the result of this lack of attention.
The poor showing for Soviet recon was shown in the mediocre quality of their vehicles. Here are the broad details that I know of:
The Ba-64 was introduced in mid 1942 and was built on the chassis of the GAZ-64 jeep. The superstructure, which was built onto the chassis, was constructed from welded sheet steel and was designed with sloped armour that had some similarities to the German SdKfz 222 design. It had an open roof, which was fitted with a pintle mounted 7.62mm DT machine gun. The vehicles construction was also influenced by experience gained during combat conditions. It was the first Russian armored car to feature all wheel drive and was also adapted so that low grade oils and gasolines could be used without affecting its perfomance. The engine was protected by an internal armored shield to reduce the risk of combat damage. The Ba-64 was nicknamed 'Bobik' (Bobby) by its crews and possessed good traction properties on a variety of terrains. However, one serious design flaw due to its narrow chassis, was that it was top heavy and could easily overturn on rough terrain. The crew compartment was extremely cramped and the vehicles combat effectiveness was reduced with the commander also acting as the gunner.A further variant, the Ba-64B, was also introduced, which could be converted to travel on rails with the fitting of steel disc wheels. These vehicles were often used in the composition of armored trains, with a speed of up to 80kmh achievable.
In 1943, an improved version, the Ba-64B was introduced, based on the GAZ-67B jeep. It was designed with a wider wheelbase to prevent the risk of overturning on rough terrain. This model also had a small machine gun turret added. Another variant was introduced, the Ba-64DShK, which was fitted with a 12.7mm DShK mg. In early 1943, a further variant, the Ba-64SKh was introduced. It was fitted with a small caterpillar track instead of rear wheels. Early vehicles of this type suffered from insufficient maneuverability and speed. The type was further modified and fitted with widened tracks and improved suspension.
The Ba-64 was produced until the end of the war, remaining in service throughout
Armour: 12mm
Weight: 2.4 tons.
Armament: 7.62mm DT Mg.
Speed: 80kmh (50mph) on road and 26kmh (16mph) cross country.
Range: 350km (280miles) on road and 194km (121 miles) cross country.
Crew: 2, comander/gunner and driver.
The Ba-10 armored car was introduced in 1938. It was similar in design to its predecessors the Ba-6 and Ba-9, however it used the chassis of the GAZ-AAA truck. The superstructure, which was built onto the chassis, was constructed from welded sheet steel. The truncated cone turret housed the 37mm M1930 gun and a ball mounted DT machine gun. A second DT machine gun was located in the frontal hull plate, to the right of the driver. Another innovation in the Ba-10's construction, were the freely rotating spare wheels suspended at the sides of the hull. The spares prevented the car from bottoming out and assisted in the traversal of trenches and ditches.
An improved variant, the Ba-10M was introduced in 1939. It was fitted with the larger 45mm M1932 gun and carried 49 rounds of ammunition. A further variant, the Ba-10ZD, was also introduced, which could be converted to travel on rails with the fitting of steel disc wheels.
All vehicles in the series suffered from poor off road performance and this lead to their early phasing out. The BA-10 remained in use until 1942, when many were converted into armored personnel carriers. Large numbers of BA-10's were captured by the Germans and used for anti-partisan duties. The Germans designated these captured vehicles Panzerspahwagen BAF 203(r).
Armour: 15mm
Weight: 5.1 tons.
Armament: 37mm M1930 gun (34 rounds) and 2 x 7.62mm DT Mg's.
Speed: 53kmh (20mph) on road and 17kmh (11mph) cross country.
Range: 350km (218miles) on road and 180km (109 miles) cross country.
Crew: 4, commander, gunner, loader and driver.
Perhaps the worst aspect of the Red Army's operations wwas its approach to battlefield recon. It was often don hapahazardly, or worse, not at all. The results were thyat the russians often attacked into the unknown, and heavier casulaties were the result of this lack of attention.
The poor showing for Soviet recon was shown in the mediocre quality of their vehicles. Here are the broad details that I know of:
The Ba-64 was introduced in mid 1942 and was built on the chassis of the GAZ-64 jeep. The superstructure, which was built onto the chassis, was constructed from welded sheet steel and was designed with sloped armour that had some similarities to the German SdKfz 222 design. It had an open roof, which was fitted with a pintle mounted 7.62mm DT machine gun. The vehicles construction was also influenced by experience gained during combat conditions. It was the first Russian armored car to feature all wheel drive and was also adapted so that low grade oils and gasolines could be used without affecting its perfomance. The engine was protected by an internal armored shield to reduce the risk of combat damage. The Ba-64 was nicknamed 'Bobik' (Bobby) by its crews and possessed good traction properties on a variety of terrains. However, one serious design flaw due to its narrow chassis, was that it was top heavy and could easily overturn on rough terrain. The crew compartment was extremely cramped and the vehicles combat effectiveness was reduced with the commander also acting as the gunner.A further variant, the Ba-64B, was also introduced, which could be converted to travel on rails with the fitting of steel disc wheels. These vehicles were often used in the composition of armored trains, with a speed of up to 80kmh achievable.
In 1943, an improved version, the Ba-64B was introduced, based on the GAZ-67B jeep. It was designed with a wider wheelbase to prevent the risk of overturning on rough terrain. This model also had a small machine gun turret added. Another variant was introduced, the Ba-64DShK, which was fitted with a 12.7mm DShK mg. In early 1943, a further variant, the Ba-64SKh was introduced. It was fitted with a small caterpillar track instead of rear wheels. Early vehicles of this type suffered from insufficient maneuverability and speed. The type was further modified and fitted with widened tracks and improved suspension.
The Ba-64 was produced until the end of the war, remaining in service throughout
Armour: 12mm
Weight: 2.4 tons.
Armament: 7.62mm DT Mg.
Speed: 80kmh (50mph) on road and 26kmh (16mph) cross country.
Range: 350km (280miles) on road and 194km (121 miles) cross country.
Crew: 2, comander/gunner and driver.
The Ba-10 armored car was introduced in 1938. It was similar in design to its predecessors the Ba-6 and Ba-9, however it used the chassis of the GAZ-AAA truck. The superstructure, which was built onto the chassis, was constructed from welded sheet steel. The truncated cone turret housed the 37mm M1930 gun and a ball mounted DT machine gun. A second DT machine gun was located in the frontal hull plate, to the right of the driver. Another innovation in the Ba-10's construction, were the freely rotating spare wheels suspended at the sides of the hull. The spares prevented the car from bottoming out and assisted in the traversal of trenches and ditches.
An improved variant, the Ba-10M was introduced in 1939. It was fitted with the larger 45mm M1932 gun and carried 49 rounds of ammunition. A further variant, the Ba-10ZD, was also introduced, which could be converted to travel on rails with the fitting of steel disc wheels.
All vehicles in the series suffered from poor off road performance and this lead to their early phasing out. The BA-10 remained in use until 1942, when many were converted into armored personnel carriers. Large numbers of BA-10's were captured by the Germans and used for anti-partisan duties. The Germans designated these captured vehicles Panzerspahwagen BAF 203(r).
Armour: 15mm
Weight: 5.1 tons.
Armament: 37mm M1930 gun (34 rounds) and 2 x 7.62mm DT Mg's.
Speed: 53kmh (20mph) on road and 17kmh (11mph) cross country.
Range: 350km (218miles) on road and 180km (109 miles) cross country.
Crew: 4, commander, gunner, loader and driver.
parsifal
Colonel
Sovitet vehicles were not poor nor excellent; it was the harsh reality of the Eastern front that required them to go to combat they weren't designed for, and push from brass that required the similar thing.
There were two main models of tracked recon vehicles, the T-37 and T-40, both being amphibious. Those were lightly armored and armed (7,62 and 12,7mm MGs respectively), but the package was superior to anything west produced in the same job time frame.
T-37 tank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
T-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There were two main models of tracked recon vehicles, the T-37 and T-40, both being amphibious. Those were lightly armored and armed (7,62 and 12,7mm MGs respectively), but the package was superior to anything west produced in the same job time frame.
T-37 tank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
T-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
