The British are selfish for leaving the French at Dunkirk

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No Chief it would not have lasted any bit longer at all. The German main attack did not attack the Maginot Line directly, therefore your cannon and AA system would have still had no use. They went around the Maginot Line.

The whole concept of it in a mobile warfare type setting, is useless.

If you sit in one spot you are going.

Notice how Saddam put his tanks in little dugouts and they were not supposed to move and just fire at the advancing US tanks.
Guess what that did not work either, they all got destroyed either from the air or run over by allied tanks.

Same concept.

 

[Chief]

Yeah, I never thought of it like that. Once the war started the whole point is to push forward and gain ground. I just failed to grasp the consept.

I'm assuming when you say going around you mean by sea landing, Cause I said if they finished it, meaning extending it from Sea to Sea, but regardless your right. As a defensive possition is one thing, but after the allies had gained the initiative it you wouldn't be able to move it, so than it would just prove to be just a waste of resources.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It was never meant to go from Sea to Sea. They were only going to build it from the Belgium border to the Swiss border to begin with.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Even if they had gone from Sea to Sea the Germans still would have gone right through it.

 

[plan_D]

"True it was outdated being design for a Second WW1 and the fact that it wasn't completed didn't help much. Not to mention they didn't have a single AA gun system at all. However, if they based the line as so, cannon, AA Gun, cannon, AA gun. It probably would've held out at least a little bit longer."

What made the Maginot Line ineffective was the idea of using it as a pivot in the defence of France. The line itself could have been made very effective, whether it was finished or not.

France had anti-aircraft artillery all through the Maginot Line, and all through France. Your extremely simple idea of "cannon, AA gun, cannon, AA gun," actually makes no sense and is certainly no way of improving the Maginot Line.

"Also, did the french have close air support over the Maginot line?"

The Armeé de l'Air covered the Maginot Line, yes. The Luftwaffe achieved air superiority over the sector's of assault though, which allowed the Ju 87 and other bombers to destroy the sectors. Intense anti-aircraft cannot be everywhere, and on a static line this flaw is trebled.

"Yeah, I never thought of it like that. Once the war started the whole point is to push forward and gain ground. I just failed to grasp the consept."

Forget trying to grasp that concept, Chief. The idea of war is not to gain ground, that's Great War thinking that costs a lot of lives. The idea of war is to destroy the opposing army, you always aim to destroy the opposing army. You fight over land, not for it.

"I'm assuming when you say going around you mean by sea landing, Cause I said if they finished it, meaning extending it from Sea to Sea, but regardless your right."

The original design went from sea to sea, with the sector facing Italy called the Alpine Line. However, the alliance signed with Belgium in 1920 stopped the building of the line to the English Channel. It wasn't until 1936 when Belgium declared neutrality that the French had to rush the build to the Channel. But it would never have gone through the Ardennes forest.

"As a defensive possition is one thing, but after the allies had gained the initiative it you wouldn't be able to move it, so than it would just prove to be just a waste of resources."

Having a defensive position is a good idea, it's a holding point behind the advance. You don't need to move them, just build another one. Not all would be as expensive as the Maginot Line.

The Maginot Line was grand and expensive but was not effective. As I stated before only infantry attacked the line. There were so many blindsides to the fortifications the German infantry could move in and amongst them to destroy the fortifications with little worry of injury. The line also lacked depth, there was a strong frontline and a few really weak rear lines. Once the Germans had broken through one line, they'd broken through the whole defence.

 

[HealzDevo]

I wonder how Napolean would have defended France at the beginning of WW2. I am talking about a Napolean at the height of his thinking powers. I don't think he would have been too focused on building expensive fortifications. I think he would have focused more on using the money that went into the Magniot Line more efficiently on troops and equipment as well as a border-guard watch on Germany. I don't think France would have been overrun quite so fast with a height of thinking Napoean at the helm. Belgium fought a running battle with the Germans and held out for a while against German Forces.

 

[plan_D]

No they didn't. Belgium relied on forts around Liegé.

 

[HealzDevo]

What do you think? Would the money that was in the Maginot Line have been better spent on training troops, and building up tanks and aircraft with rough airfields that could have been used to attack the Germans? Would this have delayed Hitler's attack on France at all?

 

[Emac44]

The French are the French and always have been. Looking back over 100 yrs of European history and regarding the French. We as allies England her Commonwealth our essteemed US allies during 2 World Wars the only conclusion i can come up with. is that as Allies go we should have let the Germans have the bloody whole country called France. One wonders why we kept going to the aid of France knowing full well they would turn and shite upon us her former allies from a great height. Alder to you and your people take France please we don't want it any more.

Further from what i have read. That the French are making overtures for the removal of all Allied Servicemens Bodies and remains to be removed from the old World War One cemetries. The French are claiming they don't want this RUBBISH litering their soil any more. This includes British Canadians Americans Australians New Zealanders and other Sericemen from other Commonwealth Countries that fought and died in France during 1914 to 1918. Fortunately enough that is not that all the French people claiming to have the mortal remains of Foriegners removed from France as people in the Albert region of France to this day still pay homage to the sacrifices of Allied troops that died in the Albert region. Particularly around Mienn Gate and Road and local villages. From what i understand from chatters i speak to in yahoo similar sediments about removal of Allied Servicemen killed during World War 2 in the defense and recapture of France from the Germans is similar to what the French are claiming about World War One cemetries. Isn't it great to know who your friends are

 

[plan_D]

Healzdevo, the French would have been wise to invest in training and education of their forces. Theorists should have been let loose in the armoured warfare sector and the technology surrounding armoured warfare and intergrated arms should have had all the money in France's possession pumped into it.

The French should have replicated the German approach...only if the French had done it, the French would have been further on because Britain and France were the WORLD LEADERS in armoured warfare until 1934.

 

[syscom3]

What do you think? Would the money that was in the Maginot Line have been better spent on training troops, and building up tanks and aircraft with rough airfields that could have been used to attack the Germans? Would this have delayed Hitler's attack on France at all?

I think the French were psychologically defeated even before the war began. WW1 took a horrendous toll on the national psyche.......

Even though the French army had some officers who knew what they were doing, sadly enough, the general's were for the most part, stuck in WW1 thinking.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree with syscom on that. The whole Maginot concept came out of there WW1 tactical ideas.

 

[redcoat]

Further from what i have read. That the French are making overtures for the removal of all Allied Servicemens Bodies and remains to be removed from the old World War One cemetries. The French are claiming they don't want this RUBBISH litering their soil any more. This includes British Canadians Americans Australians New Zealanders and other Sericemen from other Commonwealth Countries that fought and died in France during 1914 to 1918.

This statement has no basis in fact.

Its a lie

You should be ashamed of yourself for repeating such nonsense

 

[syscom3]

I dont think thats true.

In 1998, France awarded their Legion of Merit to all surviving veterans of the war. I wouldnt see why they would have changed their minds this soon.

But............ in a few decades, with enough muslims in "Frogistan" then they might do something like that.

 

[Emac44]

This statement has no basis in fact.

Its a lie

You should be ashamed of yourself for repeating such nonsense

I am not the one recommending the removal of Allied servicemen from graves in France and its no lie. If you believe its a lie then i suggest you go and research yourself what has been going on

 

[Emac44]

I dont think thats true.

In 1998, France awarded their Legion of Merit to all surviving veterans of the war. I wouldnt see why they would have changed their minds this soon.

But............ in a few decades, with enough muslims in "Frogistan" then they might do something like that.

That is correct at least 4 surviving Australians from WW1 were honoured in such a way sys

 

[redcoat]

I am not the one recommending the removal of Allied servicemen from graves in France and its no lie. If you believe its a lie then i suggest you go and research yourself what has been going on

No, You give us your source.
You made the accusation, now back it up.

 

[Emac44]

BBC war graves commission vandals war graves> Commonwealth and British war graves Vandalized in 2003 I suggest you you do your own research. At no time did i say it was the French Govt who has been doing this but parts of the French Population who feel this way. There is a growing apathy in France with certain people due to war in Iraq about the grave sites in France


BBC NEWS | UK | British war graves vandalised that is the news link story i came across on the BBC

 

[Emac44]

and try this one as well that links to the vandalization of war graves in France

OUTRAGE OVER GRAVES THREAT

if you go and have a look you will see some very interesting comments about an airport that was to be built and the removal of 61 allied servicemen killed in action in France and about the Australian Govt and the reaction of the relatives of those soldiers killed in action. keep looking at different areas and including the BBC account and you will see the motive behind the vandalism and what words were spread on the grave sites by these french mongrels who discrated the memorials

 

[Emac44]

This statement has no basis in fact.

Its a lie

You should be ashamed of yourself for repeating such nonsense

And before you accuse another forum writer of lying again I suggest you quote word for word not sections of what is written to make yourself look good. In other words the whole post not sections you find objectionable. Its obvious to me you didn't read all the post and picked out bits and pieces. now i have backed up my claim to suit myself. Its up to you now to do your own research before calling any one a liar. And I have nothing to be ashamed of