The Engine Conumdrum

[stona]

What's wrong with that?

You want your allies to be strong so they can pull their weight during a major war. That's why the USA sold F-16 fighter aircraft and all sorts of other military hardware to NATO nations.

Allies? Switzerland,Spain,both neutral. Yugoslavia was not part of the axis,invaded in 1941. USSR?

That accounts for 197 fighters which by no stretch of the imagination were bolstering the strength of Germany's allies.

By simply curtailing exports in the run up to war the Luftwaffe could have had an extra 2-300 top class single engined fighters available. Whether they had anyone to fly them is another question entirely.

Messerschmitt would have made less money for its shareholders.

Steve

 

[Juha]

He-111P maybe. Do-17 / Do-215 was a dead end. All the more so if Dornier has DB603 engines available for the new Do-217 during 1941.

There will be Hungarian built He-112Bs using DB601 engines imported from Germany just as they wanted to do historically. Perhaps Heinkel will shift all fighter production to Hungary. That works to German advantage. Let Hungary build He-112B fighter aircraft to arm the nations of Central Europe.

Most important of all, there will be enough DB601 engines to allow production this magnificent aircraft.
View attachment 206067

Now He 112 was a disappointment at least to Romanians, they withdrawn it fairly soon after first combat experiences in 1941, Do 217 historically entered service in 41, I don't think that DB 603 would have made it SO much better.

Juha

 

[Juha]

One which might have some effect was the Soviet TB-7/Pe-8, very limited production partly because the lack of suitable engines, VVS had a respectable strategic bombing force up to mid 30s in form of was that 400 TB-3 heavy bombers.

Juha

 

[davebender]

WorldWar2.ro - He-112B
I imagine so since historical Romanian He-112Bs were powered by Jumo 210 engines producing 680 - 700hp. Power the He-112B airframe with a 1,175PS DB601Aa engine and Romanian pilots will have a world class fighter aircraft.

 

[Juha]

WorldWar2.ro - He-112B
I imagine so since historical Romanian He-112Bs were powered by Jumo 210 engines producing 680 - 700hp. Power the He-112B airframe with a 1,175PS DB601Aa engine and Romanian pilots will have a world class fighter aircraft.

While I agree that engines were very important component of succesful a/c as seen for ex Bf 109D vs 109E or Spit V vs IX I doubt that He-112B with a DB601Aa would have been a great fighter.

Juha

 

[R Pope]

Jets are thirsty! Lots more jet fighters would have been a detriment to the Luftwaffe in the long run, they would have been sitting on the ground with empty tanks.(as the few they built did anyway!)

 

[Njaco]

The jet fuel was different than the aviation fuel used for prop fighters and was available for the most part. The problem with the jets were qualified pilots to fly them along with problems with the engines - limited run-time, materials for building, etc.

 

[stona]

Jets are thirsty! Lots more jet fighters would have been a detriment to the Luftwaffe in the long run, they would have been sitting on the ground with empty tanks.(as the few they built did anyway!)

Jet engines run on less complicated fuels than the piston engined aircraft. The Me 262 used a fuel similar to diesel.
The Germans were short of everything but jet fuel is a much simpler proposition to synthesise than high octane aviation fuel.
Unfortunately for the Me 262 units as the end came Germany was concentrating on synthesising the high octane C3 aviation fuel.
J2 fuel for jet aircraft became very scarce.

OKL issued a warning on 18 February about fuel shortages, duly relayed by Lw.Kdo. West:

"The orders previously issued concerning economy in the use of a/c fuel and control of flying operations of flying units apply equally to fuel J2 and to a/c 8-162, Me 262 and Ar 234. The monthly production, compared with possibilities of consumption is very small. As the TL jet engines have a relatively high consumption it is absolutely forbidden for these particular a/c to taxi under their own power prior to take-off and after landing and also to and from their own parking places. Exceptions are only permitted in special cases, when the situation compels. The consumption of J2 in M/T is forbidden."

Steve

 

[davebender]

Why? Everything I have read suggests the He-112B airframe performed as good or better then the Me-109 when both were powered by similiar engines.

The major He-112B shortcoming was production cost. Unless Heinkel / Manfred Weiss can find ways to lower He-112B production cost I would expect the He-112B production line to convert to a He-100 variant.

Manfred Weiss might also attempt a contract for license production of the Fw-187 ILO the historical Me-210C. Especially if RLM rejects the Fw-187 despite having plenty of DB601 engines available.

 

[Shortround6]

Converting from the He-112 to the He 100 can only help the allied cause. Yje Hungarians didn't need (couldn't afford) expensive trick aircraft. They needed good performing, cheap aircraft. Single seat twin engine fighters are too expensive for the Hungarians. The He 100 wasn't ready for prime time and would have made a lousy fighter if put into service.

 

[davebender]

Single seat twin engine fighters are too expensive for the Hungarians.

Apparently you know more about Hungarian needs then they do because Hungary chose to produce the Me-210C when they could have produced Me-109s instead.

 

[Shortround6]

Apparently you know more about Hungarian needs then they do because Hungary chose to produce the Me-210C when they could have produced Me-109s instead.

What is your source that the Hungarians had any real choice in what aircraft they produced when the 210 production plan was made? Luftwaffe was to get 2/3rd of the Hungarian production and Hungarians got 1/3. A real "deal" for the Hungarians. First 3 Hungarian built Me 210C-1s went to the Luftwaffe in April 1943, a number years late for your proposed time line and even 1941 when the negations started the political climate in Hungary was a lot different than 1938-40 when Hungary was "shopping" for aircraft for it's own air force.