The Falklands

Glider · Nov 25, 2005

CB I don't know the real awnser but I suspect he knew that he wouldn't stand a chance. He obviously knew that we had Nuclear Subs in the area which would sink anything that he might send in. Plus our ships could take care of themselves, most had Exocet or the Sea Dart. Our Lynx Helicopters have proven themselves to e deadly against smaller ships which the Argentine Navy had quite a few of at the time. Plus of course we had the Carriers. As for the submarines, yours were old and our A/S skills have always been amongst the best in the world.

A naval attack was going to be a difficult mission.

I was suprised that the Argentine forces didn't use mines. There cheap, difficult to counter and would have caused a lot of distruption.

pbfoot · Nov 25, 2005

weren't the brit forces privy to US spy satellite imagery as well

CharlesBronson · Nov 25, 2005

CB I don't know the real awnser but I suspect he knew that he wouldn't stand a chance. He obviously knew that we had Nuclear Subs in the area which would sink anything that he might send in

Maybe...probably he dont want to take the political weight of the losses, you know thinking in the future, knowing that the "military" goverments wont last forever.

Glider · Nov 26, 2005

There were rumours that the Argentine Navy were told that if the 25th May left terratorial waters then it was considered to be a target. They knew that we were keeping an eye on it. I don't see any attack working without the support of a carrier.
PB Its never been admitted but we would be astonished if that wasn't the case. The USA gave us a lot of support and I am sure Satellite Photos would be the first thing that we would have asked for.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 26, 2005

It would not surprise me either.

Eagle_Giuli · Nov 28, 2005

Of course the US supported to the british forces, the main supports were the AIM-9L sidewinders, and the satellital support.

Glider · Nov 28, 2005

Eagle, Close but not quite. We already had the AIM-9L in our NATO Stocks which we obviously took with us. There is no doubt that we received a lot of logistic support and as I said earlier I would be amazed if we didn't get the photo's as out no1 priority.
It should also be pointed out that the French also gave support including intensive air to air combat training against the Super Entard which of course carried the Exocet. In case your wondering, the Harrier won every combat.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 29, 2005

And England and bought those missiles long before the Falklands conflict so in that sense that was not really support from the US.

CharlesBronson · Nov 29, 2005

It should also be pointed out that the French also gave support including intensive air to air combat training against the Super Entard which of course carried the Exocet. In case your wondering, the Harrier won every combat.

A good book about this subject and the clandestine operations ( both argentine and british) is this:

http://www.nigelwest.com/thesecretwarforthefalklands.htm

By the way here is some nice art of the war:

Right on Time:
Argentine Air Force's Douglas A-4B, flown by Alférez Dellepiane, comes back limping after having its fuel tanks peppered by shrapnel and AAA -thus losing all of its fuel-, over Bluff Cove on June 8th, 1982. As soon as the emergency was declared, an Air Force KC-130H was sent over to refuel the aircraft in flight, in order to keep the Skyhawk flying. You can see several fuel leaks from the A-4B leaving their trails. Both aircraft arrived safely at the mainland.

May 21st, 1982. Three Argentine Navy A-4Q's deliver the final blow to HMS Ardent, a British Frigate.The aircraft, flown by Cdr. Filippi, Lt. Arca and Lt Márquez, were shot down later.

For more check this link and this several pages.

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/eng/mil_4.htm

Eagle_Giuli · Nov 29, 2005

Glider said:
Eagle, Close but not quite. We already had the AIM-9L in our NATO Stocks which we obviously took with us. There is no doubt that we received a lot of logistic support and as I said earlier I would be amazed if we didn't get the photo's as out no1 priority.
It should also be pointed out that the French also gave support including intensive air to air combat training against the Super Entard which of course carried the Exocet. In case your wondering, the Harrier won every combat.

The combats simuled in Britain between Harriers and Mirages IIIE, the Mirages won every of them.

Eagle_Giuli · Nov 29, 2005

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
And England and bought those missiles long before the Falklands conflict so in that sense that was not really support from the US.

I don't know when UK bought that missiles to Raytheon or the US Navy, but I am sure that the UK didn't buy them a long before the South Atlantic War. Why? The half of the Harrier fleet couldn't use them. Only could use the standards AIM-9B and AIM-9J, so I think the AIM-9L wouldn't be a veteran between your troops.

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 30, 2005

Eagle_Giuli said:
Glider said:

Eagle, Close but not quite. We already had the AIM-9L in our NATO Stocks which we obviously took with us. There is no doubt that we received a lot of logistic support and as I said earlier I would be amazed if we didn't get the photo's as out no1 priority.
It should also be pointed out that the French also gave support including intensive air to air combat training against the Super Entard which of course carried the Exocet. In case your wondering, the Harrier won every combat.

Click to expand...

The combats simuled in Britain between Harriers and Mirages IIIE, the Mirages won every of them.

everywhere i've read states the harriers one them...........

Glider · Nov 30, 2005

Eagle Sorry but you are way off the mark on this. The Mirage was a sitting duck to the Harrier. Its one advantage was straight line speed with afterburner which for obvious reasons is almost a one shot tactic. The Mirage losses energy at a frightening rate once it starts to maneuver and once lost is difficult to gain. The Harrier doesn't and had all the advantages in air combat.
Its worth noting that the Harrier has a better power to weight ratio than the Mirage E with the afterburner on. Without it, its like comparing a pigeon to a falcon. The exercises were mainly against the Super Entard as it was a plane that we had little experience against in exercises. The Mirage was a widely used plane and one that we had a lot of experience against.

As for your comment on the AIM-9L it is I am afraid incorrect. The Sea Harrier was our latest fighter at the time and had of course could take the latest Missile's. No one has ever questioned that the Harrier used them. No one has ever questioned that the missiles were taken from our NATO war stocks which were of course to be used by all RAF and Navy fighters. Like most airforces we tended to use our older ones up on practice and tests, but when the chips are down and you are going to go to war, you go with the best available.

CharlesBronson · Nov 30, 2005

The worst thing was that the Mirages III/V had to use the Rafael Shafrir and the Magic 1 wich both are very crappy compared with the Aim-9L.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 2, 2005

Eagle_Giuli said:
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

And England and bought those missiles long before the Falklands conflict so in that sense that was not really support from the US.

Click to expand...

I don't know when UK bought that missiles to Raytheon or the US Navy, but I am sure that the UK didn't buy them a long before the South Atlantic War. Why? The half of the Harrier fleet couldn't use them. Only could use the standards AIM-9B and AIM-9J, so I think the AIM-9L wouldn't be a veteran between your troops.

1st - England was using the AIM-9 well before the Falklands War. I dont care what varient it was that they were using. The US did not go "Hey you are going to war against Argentina, lets give you some AIM-9's to use against them!" Therefore that was not direct support from the US to England.

The Iraqis were using Russian equipment againt the US in Iraqi Freedom, were the Russians supporting the Iraqi's, No. This equipment was bought before the war.

2nd - Who siad the British were my troops? I am not from England.

Eagle_Giuli · Dec 11, 2005

DerAdler:
I know that the UK forces were using the Sidewinders long before 1982, but I am talking specially about the L version of the AIM-9. Not all the Sea Harriers were enabled to use them, as I know. They were modified during the war to be completely in service. Till that, the Harriers and Sea Harriers (specially the firsts) were using other AIM-9 versions, as B and J. I am sorry if I am wrong, but that are my knowledges.

About your example with Iraq/Russia... Russia wasn't an Iraqi ally, but the United States declared officialy, on April the 30th, the support of material supplies to the United Kingdom, and the AIM-9L were part of those supplies, as far as I know.

Charles:
The Magic wasn't such a bad missile. Although it was under the AIM-9L, it was a modern missile to 1982, but the scenario of battle that Harriers presented (low attitude, low speed) made impossible to the Mirage III to operate. Remember that the Mirages are specially high attitude and speed fighters, as all deltas aircraft are...
Resuming, the tactic of the Sea Harriers was what won the battle, not the ineficacy of the R-550 Magics.

Glider:
I am sorry, I expresed myself so bad that nobody understood what I was trying to say. The Harriers defeated to the Mirages in their scenarios, low-sp, low-at), but the Mirages, as I know, have more than the 90% of the battles at high-high.

Glider · Dec 13, 2005

Eagle
Don't worry your English is coming along and some misunderstandings are inevitable. Just be glad I am not trying to communicate in Spanish.

Re the American Supplies of the AIM-9L. They were used to top up the war supplies that we took. Its a small point as had we needed more I don't doubt that the USA would have given us some. All Sea Harriers were able to operate the 9L of that I am quite certain.

CharlesBronson · Dec 13, 2005

British infantry under fire:

CharlesBronson · Feb 26, 2006

Attack on HMS Coventry, 25th may 1982.

http://www.zippyvideos.com/4281015223995526/coventry/

CharlesBronson · Aug 3, 2006

Some pics from equipment used by the BIMs ( Marines batallions) in the conflict.

Combat radio PCR-77 with assault gear.

The well know Browning M2HB cal .50 in this case a argentine variant made by FM.

The belgian FN-MAG 7,62 mg, also made by FM; the usual gas settings in this gun gave him a 700 rpm.

The Falklands

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