The final Bf-110 variant. Any help appreciated!

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by delcyros, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. delcyros

    delcyros Well-Known Member

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    Hi Gents.

    The latest deliveries fo the Messerschmidt Bf-110 are recorded to have taken place in february 1945. The type is listed as Bf-110H. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find any information covering this subtype other than it was a lightened up Bf-110 without observer/gunner and the related equipment. It was driven by 2xDb-605E powerplants. Some authors state it only reached prototype stage, while others insisting in that production models 110H-2, 110H-3 and 110H-3 were planned while 110H0 preserials and Bf-110H1 were produced and delivered to the Luftwaffe.

    How does the plane look like? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks in advance and happy new year everyone!
     
  2. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I too have only read that it never reached production. Maybe someone else has more info on it.
     
  3. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Interesting to note that some information refers to it as a Bf-110HOG, a G-version variant. Perhaps Erich can chime in with some information.

    Aircraft of the Luftwaffe, by Jean-Denis G. G. Lepage, notes that the H-version was a ground attack version produced in Feb 1945. Others have noted that the G-2/R1 version included a 37mm cannon gondola below the fuselage. The G-2/R3 with two 30mm Mk-108 cannon in the nose. While the G-3 was a long range reconnaisance fighter.

    Personally I think we are entering into Luft46 with some of these drawing board ideas. It was an outdated airframe struggling for relevance beyond its nightfighter role. And in the nightfighter role is where it found it's niche.
     
  4. Kurfürst

    Kurfürst Banned

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    #4 Kurfürst, Jan 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2010
    This should answer all your questions, from Mankau/Petrick's 110/210/410 book (or better, bible)

    H-2's top speed was to be 650 km/h at 10000 m w. GM-1.

    Other variants included:

    H-4, Nachtjäger für große Höhen, with 2/3 man crew, new type of flame dampers. It seems unclear but it appears that this one would only have 2 MG FF or 1 MK 108 in schräge Musik installation... (?)

    H-5 was to be a single seat heavy fighter, with the radio operator/gunner position and its armoring deleted.

    H-6 was a simple night fighter in a similar execution as the G-4/R9, but with DB 605E engines and MW50 boost.
     
  5. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Good post Karfurst, can you reduce the size of your scan please?
     
  6. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Yes but none entered service correct?
     
  7. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    Correct.


    "The Bf 110 H remained a concept only."


    Mankau/Petrick's "Messerschmitt 110/210/410 - An Illustrated History", page 231.
     
  8. delcyros

    delcyros Well-Known Member

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    A concept? But why then the were the prototypes bombed while under construction? A concept does not include prototypes and we even have a few Werknummern from a source dating to february 1945, implying that a few machines have been worked at least to a degree to receive their Werknummer. I am not convinced that the term "concept" does qualify here. I may be wrong, on the other hand, just wondering.
     
  9. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    You could always ask George Hopp, probably the leading expert on the Bf 110 F-G series, Mr Vasco being the authority on earlier versions.

    Having W.nr's allocated means nothing. It does not mean they were actually built.
     
  10. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    I just took a peek at the 1945 Janes All the Worlds Aircraft and in there it states that manufacture of the 110 ended with the G model. This was the first post war edition and the editorial says it has been complied with a great deal of previoulsly unavailable manufacturers data for the German section. For whatever thats worth.
     
  11. A4K

    A4K Well-Known Member

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    So Werknummern could be allocated to Versuch (prototype) aircraft even before construction commenced?
    Another explanation may be if prototype H's were to be from delegated, or already constructed G airframes..(?)
     
  12. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    I suspect this is the only version which had a chance to see mass production.

    The Me-110 costs about 2/3rd the price of a Ju-88 so a case can be made by someone like Herr Speer that it should become the mass production German night fighter. It is powered by inexpensive and widely available DB605 engines that were producing about 1,800 hp by 1945. This allows the more expensive BMW 801 radial engines to be reserved for bombers and DB603 / Jumo213 V12 engines to be reserved for the Ta-152 day fighter.

    Of course making any of this happen during 1945 requires Germany to have an adequate supply of aviation gasoline which was not the case historically.
     
  13. delcyros

    delcyros Well-Known Member

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    #13 delcyros, Jan 7, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
    I must admit that over the years I really egun to like the Bf-110.It´s much of a missed opportunity inmy eyes.
    One of the prime mistakes is the comparably low wingloading of the model. For a twin this means that the plane could in theory outturn all contemporary Bf-109 variants and most of it´s opposition (safe the Hurricane and the Spit, the latter beeing an equal turner). In reality this doesn´t mean much because the time to bank is larger than all with the heavy weights of the engines buildt into the wings. It was even contra-effective because the good turn rate indirectly lead to the adoption of the defensive circle formation, once the initiative was gone.
    However, the low wingloading also gave it a low speed take-off/landing performance and probably is the reason why the airframe could also accept much heavier payloads (up to 2 x 1000kg) and heavy upgrades later in the war.

    A much more interesting proposal would be the Bf-110 with a smaller wing area. Something around 30 m^2 instead of the huge 38.4m^2. This would also allow for a direct comparison with the vaunted Focke Wulf 187 Falke.
    It trades turn performance and takeoff performance for speed. In combination with the powerful frontal armement this would turn the Bf-110 into an uber-fighter with outstanding energy fighting abilities. It would also help to lower the bank times and roll rates.
    I wonder why Messerschmidt didn´t adopted this when he was a forerunner of the high wingloaded design philosophy in the mid 30´s...

    Somehow like this picture (not finetuned, it´s photoshop worked over!):

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    See Me 210/410.
     
  15. Kurfürst

    Kurfürst Banned

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    Maximowitz beat me to it :)
     
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