Mikewint has made some great posts, complete garbage but well argued, worth reading.
The Flat Earth society
- Thread starter parsifal
- Start date
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Mike, are you a flat earther?
From what I read Mike isnt, however he knows their arguments and presents them well. honestly worth a read, not to convince you of a flat earth but to read about some phenomena.
I live by the sea with high cliffs, my world doesnt look flat from the ground, even less so from 30,000ft from where it looks just like a globe.
Shortround6
Major General
I think we are all just having fun with it.
Looking on some of the other websites/forums is amazing, like the explanation of why air travel in the 'southern hemisphere' where the flat earth map/s show roughly twice the distance between cities/continents as a globe don't show a corresponding increase in travel time.
Answer is tailwinds, according the flat earthers aircraft in this region ALWAYS have a tailwind of the appropriate speed and direction, regardless of day or season or direction of flight to achieve the same flight times of much shorter flight distances in the 'northern' part of the map.
I am considering selling them a bridge connecting Manhattan and Brooklyn that I own
Looking on some of the other websites/forums is amazing, like the explanation of why air travel in the 'southern hemisphere' where the flat earth map/s show roughly twice the distance between cities/continents as a globe don't show a corresponding increase in travel time.
Answer is tailwinds, according the flat earthers aircraft in this region ALWAYS have a tailwind of the appropriate speed and direction, regardless of day or season or direction of flight to achieve the same flight times of much shorter flight distances in the 'northern' part of the map.
I am considering selling them a bridge connecting Manhattan and Brooklyn that I own
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
A few things I think of Scott.
It was much colder than usual.
The fuel cans leaked so he had less heating.
His trek was into the wind whereas Amundsen was sheltered.
He should of quit.
I do think Amundsen being Norwegian helped him. Train all you want but if you're used to very harsh winters in a country of harsh winters then you quickly have an idea of what works.
I just feel Cook was unlucky and also too dogged. He should of quit while the going was good.
By the by...if the world is flat how does on get to the south pole?
It was much colder than usual.
The fuel cans leaked so he had less heating.
His trek was into the wind whereas Amundsen was sheltered.
He should of quit.
I do think Amundsen being Norwegian helped him. Train all you want but if you're used to very harsh winters in a country of harsh winters then you quickly have an idea of what works.
I just feel Cook was unlucky and also too dogged. He should of quit while the going was good.
By the by...if the world is flat how does on get to the south pole?
Shortround6
Major General
One doesn't. Scott and Amundsen's expeditions were hoax's perpetrated by the international globe manufacturers confederation.
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
So how did Scott die? Did Hollywood have a sound stage?
So a brave man died for some vainglorious achievement has instead been killed by the shadowy globe manufacturers confederation?
By typing this we are in grave danger.
Under interrogation I am going to sing like a canary.
So a brave man died for some vainglorious achievement has instead been killed by the shadowy globe manufacturers confederation?
By typing this we are in grave danger.
Under interrogation I am going to sing like a canary.
Old Wizard
2nd Lieutenant
mikewint
Captain
Chris, OKey I won't. It's being: Befürworte für den Teufel
Pbehn, I'll try to earn my popcorn but I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to when you say "as close as possible". First, there is not a Northern sailing route as a lot of land masses are in the way and the Arctic Ocean is blocked by constantly shifting sea ice.
Now going south is possible though weather conditions steadily worsen as you proceed further and further South since their are no landmasses to block wind or warm currents to moderate conditions. The names of the southern latitudes are very descriptive, i.e. Roaring Forties, Furious Fifties, Screaming Sixties.
Therefore, all of the Yacht races are generally along the old clipper ship route: From England/France/Spain down (south) the Atlantic Ocean to the Cape of Good Hope; then clockwise around the Cape, keeping Cape Hope to port; then East towards Australia. On this leg, the ships will be in the Roaring Forties or Furious Fifties (40-49 degree South Latitudes and 50-59 degree South Latitudes). The winds here blow from the west to the east with a good degree of force. In addition the ships will be in the Antarctic Circumpolar Current which also flows west to east.
The race then rounds the southern tip of Australia and continues East towards Cape Horn. Rounding the Horn west to east the race turns North up the coast of South America, across the Atlantic Ocean returning to their starting point. The race generally runs from November to February, and is timed to place the competitors in the Southern Ocean during the austral summer when wind/weather conditions have moderated to some extent.
Probably the toughest race was the Global Challenge run every four years starting in 1992. What made this unique was the direction of the race, from the East to the West, against the prevailing winds and currents. The route has varied but in 2004/5 started from Portsmouth (UK) and stopped at Buenos Aires (ARG), Wellington (NZ), Sydney (AUS), Cape Town (SA), Boston (USA) and La Rochelle (FRA) before returning again to Portsmouth.
Pbehn, I'll try to earn my popcorn but I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to when you say "as close as possible". First, there is not a Northern sailing route as a lot of land masses are in the way and the Arctic Ocean is blocked by constantly shifting sea ice.
Now going south is possible though weather conditions steadily worsen as you proceed further and further South since their are no landmasses to block wind or warm currents to moderate conditions. The names of the southern latitudes are very descriptive, i.e. Roaring Forties, Furious Fifties, Screaming Sixties.
Therefore, all of the Yacht races are generally along the old clipper ship route: From England/France/Spain down (south) the Atlantic Ocean to the Cape of Good Hope; then clockwise around the Cape, keeping Cape Hope to port; then East towards Australia. On this leg, the ships will be in the Roaring Forties or Furious Fifties (40-49 degree South Latitudes and 50-59 degree South Latitudes). The winds here blow from the west to the east with a good degree of force. In addition the ships will be in the Antarctic Circumpolar Current which also flows west to east.
The race then rounds the southern tip of Australia and continues East towards Cape Horn. Rounding the Horn west to east the race turns North up the coast of South America, across the Atlantic Ocean returning to their starting point. The race generally runs from November to February, and is timed to place the competitors in the Southern Ocean during the austral summer when wind/weather conditions have moderated to some extent.
Probably the toughest race was the Global Challenge run every four years starting in 1992. What made this unique was the direction of the race, from the East to the West, against the prevailing winds and currents. The route has varied but in 2004/5 started from Portsmouth (UK) and stopped at Buenos Aires (ARG), Wellington (NZ), Sydney (AUS), Cape Town (SA), Boston (USA) and La Rochelle (FRA) before returning again to Portsmouth.
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Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Look, I like hanging here and all, and you guys are aces, but, if you fellows are gonna' run afoul of the international globe manufacturers confederation I'm outta' here, in fact, I was NEVER here...
*Frantically looks up how to delete account*
*Frantically looks up how to delete account*
Sir Bedevere: ...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
King Arthur: This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
King Arthur: This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
mikewint
Captain
At 30,000ft or 5.68mi the horizon would be 212mi in ALL directions and would still appear flat. Even at 60,000ft the horizon is only 300mi in each direction you simply are not going to see anything resembling a globe. Remember you are at the CENTER of what becomes a circle whose boundary is the horizon. So is it curved?? OF COURSE it is, IT'S A CIRCLE. Photographs from high flying aircraft are TWO DIMENSIONAL and as such the curve APPEARS to be curved in the vertical (photograph direction) direction from the pilots perspective as in this 2-D drawing but it's actually curved along the horizontal.
Think about it this way. As you move higher the horizon recedes getting further away. Picture taking a slice through an orange
You are at the top center looking down at the horizon. The angle is very small, just 1.7 degrees at 10,000 feet; 3.5 degrees at 40,000 feet but you can't see over the edge so you are seeing a flat circle (remember circles are round).
If you go higher the horizon recedes further and further BUT you are still at the center and it's still just a CIRCLE, curved? You bet IT'S A CIRCLE
Go high enough and your horizon becomes the equator and you see the full DISK of the earth
mikewint
Captain
Flat or globe it matters not. The winds still come from the west and blow east around the globe/disk and the current is CIRCUMpolar so no matter how you look at it you're going around a globe/disk till you're back at your start point.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Personally, I think it's all balls ..........................
mikewint
Captain
Now they're actually oblong...
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
Telling youse guys are gonna piss off the space turtle!
mikewint
Captain
THE EARTH ON TURTLE'S BACK
Before Earth was here there was only water as far as one could see in all directions, with birds and
animals swimming around in it. Up above in the clouds there was Skyland. In Skyland was a great and
beautiful tree with four white roots stretching to the four sacred directions. Every kind of fruit and
flower grew from its wide spreading branches.
The Chief of Skyland's young wife was expecting a child. One night she dreamt she saw the great tree
uprooted. The next morning she told her husband her dream. "This is very sad," he said, "for it is a
dream of great power and we must do all we can to make it come true." Then the chief called all the
men together and told them they must uproot the tree. But the roots were so deep and strong they
couldn't budge it. So the ancient chief himself wrapped his arms around the tree and strained and
strained, until with one last great effort he uprooted it. Now there was a great hole where the tree's roots
had been. The chief's wife came and leaned over to look down, holding the tip of one of the uprooted
tree's branches to steady herself, Far below she thought she saw something glittering like water. Leaning
out further she lost her balance and fell into the hole. Her hand slipped from the tip of the branch,
leaving her only a handful of seeds as she fell.
Far, far below in the waters some of the animals looked up. "Someone is falling from the sky," said one.
"We must help her," said another. Then two Swans flew up and caught her between their wings, and
brought her gently down to the water where the birds and animals were watching.
She is not like us," said one of the animals. "She doesn't have webbed feet. I don't think she can live in
the water."
"What shall we do?" said another of the water animals.
"I know," said one of the birds. "I have heard there is Earth far below the waters. If we dive down and
bring up Earth she will have a place to stand. So the birds and animals tried to bring up Earth. First
Duck dove far down beneath the surface, but he couldn't reach the bottom and floated back up. Then
Beaver tried. He went even deeper, so deep that it was all dark, but he couldn't reach the bottom either.
Then Loon tried and was gone a long, long time, but he too failed to bring up Earth. Soon it seemed
that all had tried and failed. Then a small voice spoke.
"I will bring up Earth or die trying." They all looked to see who it was. It was little Muskrat. She dove
down and swam and swam. She was not as strong and swift as the others, but she was determined. She
went so deep that it was all dark, and still she swam deeper. Her lungs felt ready to burst, but she swam
deeper still. At last, just as she was becoming unconscious, she grasped at the bottom with her little paw
and floated upwards, almost dead. When the other animals saw her break the surface, they thought she
had failed. Then they saw her right paw was held tightly shut.
"She has the Earth," they said. "Now where can we put it?"
"Put it on my back," said a deep voice. It was Great Turtle who had come up from the depths. They
brought Muskrat over and placed her paw against his back. To this day there are marks at the back of
Turtle's shell that were made by Muskrat's paw. The tiny bit of Earth fell on the back of Turtle. Almost
immediately it began to grow and grow until it became the whole world.
Then the two Swans brought Sky Woman down. She stepped onto the new Earth and opened her hand,
letting the seeds fall onto the bare soil. From the seeds the trees and grass and flowers sprang up. Life
on Earth had begun.
Before Earth was here there was only water as far as one could see in all directions, with birds and
animals swimming around in it. Up above in the clouds there was Skyland. In Skyland was a great and
beautiful tree with four white roots stretching to the four sacred directions. Every kind of fruit and
flower grew from its wide spreading branches.
The Chief of Skyland's young wife was expecting a child. One night she dreamt she saw the great tree
uprooted. The next morning she told her husband her dream. "This is very sad," he said, "for it is a
dream of great power and we must do all we can to make it come true." Then the chief called all the
men together and told them they must uproot the tree. But the roots were so deep and strong they
couldn't budge it. So the ancient chief himself wrapped his arms around the tree and strained and
strained, until with one last great effort he uprooted it. Now there was a great hole where the tree's roots
had been. The chief's wife came and leaned over to look down, holding the tip of one of the uprooted
tree's branches to steady herself, Far below she thought she saw something glittering like water. Leaning
out further she lost her balance and fell into the hole. Her hand slipped from the tip of the branch,
leaving her only a handful of seeds as she fell.
Far, far below in the waters some of the animals looked up. "Someone is falling from the sky," said one.
"We must help her," said another. Then two Swans flew up and caught her between their wings, and
brought her gently down to the water where the birds and animals were watching.
She is not like us," said one of the animals. "She doesn't have webbed feet. I don't think she can live in
the water."
"What shall we do?" said another of the water animals.
"I know," said one of the birds. "I have heard there is Earth far below the waters. If we dive down and
bring up Earth she will have a place to stand. So the birds and animals tried to bring up Earth. First
Duck dove far down beneath the surface, but he couldn't reach the bottom and floated back up. Then
Beaver tried. He went even deeper, so deep that it was all dark, but he couldn't reach the bottom either.
Then Loon tried and was gone a long, long time, but he too failed to bring up Earth. Soon it seemed
that all had tried and failed. Then a small voice spoke.
"I will bring up Earth or die trying." They all looked to see who it was. It was little Muskrat. She dove
down and swam and swam. She was not as strong and swift as the others, but she was determined. She
went so deep that it was all dark, and still she swam deeper. Her lungs felt ready to burst, but she swam
deeper still. At last, just as she was becoming unconscious, she grasped at the bottom with her little paw
and floated upwards, almost dead. When the other animals saw her break the surface, they thought she
had failed. Then they saw her right paw was held tightly shut.
"She has the Earth," they said. "Now where can we put it?"
"Put it on my back," said a deep voice. It was Great Turtle who had come up from the depths. They
brought Muskrat over and placed her paw against his back. To this day there are marks at the back of
Turtle's shell that were made by Muskrat's paw. The tiny bit of Earth fell on the back of Turtle. Almost
immediately it began to grow and grow until it became the whole world.
Then the two Swans brought Sky Woman down. She stepped onto the new Earth and opened her hand,
letting the seeds fall onto the bare soil. From the seeds the trees and grass and flowers sprang up. Life
on Earth had begun.
Paraphrasing Neil D. Tyson:
The good thing about science is it works if you believe in it or not.
The good thing about science is it works if you believe in it or not.
mikewint
Captain
And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
