The Guns We Own

[Navalwarrior]

The pistol to the right of the C96 Mauser is a Soviet (Russian) Margolin .22 LR pistol.

Thanks. For some reason I thought it might be an air pistol. Everyone needs a 22 or two.

For the last 6 mos or so I have been doing research on early automatic pistols. I was under the assumption that the first 9mm/38 automatic (bullet diameter) came from Europe. However, According to the patent dates, John Browning was the first to build a pistol with this bullet diameter. He submitted a prototype to Colt in July 1895. Keep in mind that the first P08 Lugers were 30 caliber, as were the first successful Broomhandle Mausers. Browning initially used a modified 38 caliber revolver cartridge to function in his prototype pistol.
Initially, I thought this bullet diameter strange, until I realized that the US armed services were at that time issuing a 38 caliber (Long Colt ctg) revolver as their sidearm. Keep in mind that the US Army field tested a large number of 30 cal Lugers, circa 1900-1901, but was rejected mainly due to its small caliber. Browning knew it was only a matter of time before the govt would adopt an automatic, as Europe was advancing along this line.

 

[Night Fighter Nut]

The guy with the gun said it was a Russian target pistol. I wasn't sure of the year on the revolver.

 

[tyrodtom]

In that picture Indiana Jones is holding a Webley, not a Colt, nor a S&W

 

[Navalwarrior]

Just finished watching the History Chanel the Battle of El Alamein in 1942 Africa. The b/w film showed a shot of a British soldier in the prone position firing a P-14 Enfield .303. It was my understanding that these rifles were used in WWI and issued to second line troops in WWII, but it is good to see that they were used in some major battles. Note that the rifle was NOT fitted out with a scope, but retained the issue peep sight.

 

[Bucksnort101]

Well, I pulled the trigger (not literally) and put a down payment on a new left handed Browning X-Bolt hunter in 7mm-08. Had it narrowed down to this rifle and a Tikka T3x, but opted for the Browning due to it having a metal trigger guard as opposed to the Tikkas plastic one, and just liked the feel of the Browning better.
Will pick the rifle up after Christmas and start saving for the scope, most likely a Leupold VX-3i or VX-R depending on sales and prices.

 

[fastmongrel]

Just finished watching the History Chanel the Battle of El Alamein in 1942 Africa. The b/w film showed a shot of a British soldier in the prone position firing a P-14 Enfield .303. It was my understanding that these rifles were used in WWI and issued to second line troops in WWII, but it is good to see that they were used in some major battles. Note that the rifle was NOT fitted out with a scope, but retained the issue peep sight.

The French Army of Africa were issued with P14s and other British equipment when they transferred from Vichy control to Free French control. French units fought at the 2nd battle of El Alamein so its possible its a French soldier you saw.

I see that according to wiki the New Zealand Expeditionary force also had P14s so thats another possibility.

 

[Navalwarrior]

Well, I pulled the trigger (not literally) and put a down payment on a new left handed Browning X-Bolt hunter in 7mm-08. Had it narrowed down to this rifle and a Tikka T3x, but opted for the Browning due to it having a metal trigger guard as opposed to the Tikkas plastic one, and just liked the feel of the Browning better.
Will pick the rifle up after Christmas and start saving for the scope, most likely a Leupold VX-3i or VX-R depending on sales and prices.

Resp:
My 7mm08 is one of my favorite rifles, based on the chambering as well as the rifle. It is a used stainless 24 inch barrel Rem 700 w Tupperware stock. It carries a Burris Fullfield II 3X9. I had done extensive load data for friends' 7mm08, so was impressed with the cartridge. I think you will like it. What length bbl is on your X-Bolt?

 

[Navalwarrior]

The French Army of Africa were issued with P14s and other British equipment when they transferred from Vichy control to Free French control. French units fought at the 2nd battle of El Alamein so its possible its a French soldier you saw.

I see that according to wiki the New Zealand Expeditionary force also had P14s so thats another possibility.

Possible, but he was next to another soldier . . . both wearing the same helmet (tin) and uniform of the British Army.

 

[Torch]

Well, I pulled the trigger (not literally) and put a down payment on a new left handed Browning X-Bolt hunter in 7mm-08. Had it narrowed down to this rifle and a Tikka T3x, but opted for the Browning due to it having a metal trigger guard as opposed to the Tikkas plastic one, and just liked the feel of the Browning better.
Will pick the rifle up after Christmas and start saving for the scope, most likely a Leupold VX-3i or VX-R depending on sales and prices.

i had a Browning A-bolt stainless stalker in a .300wsm, replaced the trigger spring and the thing was a 1" grouper with hand loads. Regretted selling an A-Bolt Medallion .22lr years ago. Point is Brownings have one of the best out of the box accuarate rifles out there, You would not of been done wrong by the Tikka also. Both wise choices. Congrats.

 

[Bucksnort101]

Resp:
My 7mm08 is one of my favorite rifles, based on the chambering as well as the rifle. It is a used stainless 24 inch barrel Rem 700 w Tupperware stock. It carries a Burris Fullfield II 3X9. I had done extensive load data for friends' 7mm08, so was impressed with the cartridge. I think you will like it. What length bbl is on your X-Bolt?

22" Barrel on the Hunter model. Would have liked a 24", but from my research 22" should be sufficient to burn all the powder in that case, and the rifle balances pretty well. Rifle is on the light side, 6.6 pounds. Would have liked a little heavier rifle to absorb even more of the recoil, but us lefties are limited.
I'll shoot it with the stock in comes on, but may get a stock from Boyds later on and fully bed it.
Haven't gotten into reloading yet. I'll see how this shoots with factory ammo and maybe go from there.

 

[fastmongrel]

Possible, but he was next to another soldier . . . both wearing the same helmet (tin) and uniform of the British Army.

If they were New Zealand EF they would be wearing the same or virtually indistinguishable uniforms and kit as the British Army.

Some Free French used their original leather load carrying equipment and Adrian helmets in the desert but most of the photos I have seen they are wearing the MkII tin hat and 37 pattern webbing.

 

[Navalwarrior]

22" Barrel on the Hunter model. Would have liked a 24", but from my research 22" should be sufficient to burn all the powder in that case, and the rifle balances pretty well. Rifle is on the light side, 6.6 pounds. Would have liked a little heavier rifle to absorb even more of the recoil, but us lefties are limited.
I'll shoot it with the stock in comes on, but may get a stock from Boyds later on and fully bed it.
Haven't gotten into reloading yet. I'll see how this shoots with factory ammo and maybe go from there.

Resp:
The 22" bbl will work just fine. One reason I bought the used 7m08 (2008) is that the cartridge works well with most bbl lengths. Years ago, friends asked me to clean their 7m08s. I said I would, but I would like to shoot them also. One of them had an 18.5" bbl, so I did some load development (1990s) and found that I could get 2800+ with some powders and the Hornady 139 flat base Spire Point (lead tip, an older bullet). This bullet had a short baring surface (the part that touched the bbl) so it seemed to create less resistance/drag) and therefore pressure signs were less than with the same weight bullet that had a longer baring surface (like the 140 gr Sierras). Generally, one will not be making 300+yard shots with an 18.5" bbl rifle, so one does not need maximum velocities . . . as it will kill deer size game very well. My 24" bbl rifle shoots this 139 gr Spire Point quite well, so I have been using it above all others. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!

 

[gordonm1]

Newb here. I like P40's and collect US military surplus weapons.

I'll try and post a pic of my Red River Army Depot garand. It looks fresh from a depot rebuild. Serial no. circa 1943.

 

[Bucksnort101]

Nice!!!!

 

[Navalwarrior]

If they were New Zealand EF they would be wearing the same or virtually indistinguishable uniforms and kit as the British Army.

Some Free French used their original leather load carrying equipment and Adrian helmets in the desert but most of the photos I have seen they are wearing the MkII tin hat and 37 pattern webbing.

Resp:
You may be right. The b/w film was likely edited at some point, so there is no way of knowing for sure. Past info suggested that the British used them during WWII as 'Home Guard' or sniper mode (fitted with Scope). But photos of Home Guard carrying such rifles may actually be US Model 1917s.

 

[special ed]

Many years ago , I met a WW2 vet who was stateside his entire enlistment. He told me at his last base, He wouldn't say where, he guarded warehouses. One warehouse had cases of rifles. He found a great many of the cases contained Remington made Enfield model 1917 in .30 caliber. It appears these were a third line of defense after Springfield 03. He said these were new never issued or refurbished. After VJ day the guard duties were cut way back as personnel were discharged. He took one of the cases of twelve rifles as much of the supplies were being surplussed and many losses were written off. He never sold any as he was fearful of prosecution even 50 + years later. I got to see one and it was as he said new and not Parkerized. He would not sell one and now has passed on, most likely. I often wonder where they went. I only new his first name and that he had a son who wasn't interested in hunting.

 

[fastmongrel]

Resp:
You may be right. The b/w film was likely edited at some point, so there is no way of knowing for sure. Past info suggested that the British used them during WWII as 'Home Guard' or sniper mode (fitted with Scope). But photos of Home Guard carrying such rifles may actually be US Model 1917s.

The Home Guard were issued .303 P14 rifles and .30 M1917 rifles the only way to tell them apart is the M1917 rifles had a 2 inch wide red band painted on the foreguard. The rifles were kept apart there were .303 Division areas that had P14s or SMLEs and Lewis Guns and .30 Division areas that had 1917s or 1903s and BARs.

The sniper rifles in the regular army were .303 P14s. The Royal Marines still had a few in use as late as the Korean war.

 

[Navalwarrior]

Many years ago , I met a WW2 vet who was stateside his entire enlistment. He told me at his last base, He wouldn't say where, he guarded warehouses. One warehouse had cases of rifles. He found a great many of the cases contained Remington made Enfield model 1917 in .30 caliber. It appears these were a third line of defense after Springfield 03. He said these were new never issued or refurbished. After VJ day the guard duties were cut way back as personnel were discharged. He took one of the cases of twelve rifles as much of the supplies were being surplussed and many losses were written off. He never sold any as he was fearful of prosecution even 50 + years later. I got to see one and it was as he said new and not Parkerized. He would not sell one and now has passed on, most likely. I often wonder where they went. I only new his first name and that he had a son who wasn't interested in hunting.

Resp:
An expert on then US made Enfields said refurbIshed 1917s were Parkerized. I recently saw an original brush blue finished Remington 1917 that I assumed was 'taken home' by a soldier after WWI. However, it may have been one of those '3rd Line of Defense 1917s warehoused. I have a Remington that was refitted with (Harrington Richardson?) a 4 groove right hand twist barrel, that was refurbished prior/during WWII.

 

[special ed]

I have thought the rifles may be gone with Hurricane Katrina as were many peoples' collections. I remember seeing a 38 Packard folded in half, a car I often drove by just to look at. My Nambu is still in a can of grease because I'm not ready to look at it.

 

[Navalwarrior]

Resp:
An expert on then US made Enfields said refurbIshed 1917s were Parkerized. I recently saw an original brush blue finished Remington 1917 that I assumed was 'taken home' by a soldier after WWI. However, it may have been one of those '3rd Line of Defense 1917s warehoused. I have a Remington that was refitted with (Harrington Richardson?) a 4 groove right hand twist barrel, that was refurbished prior/during WWII.

CAUTIONARY NOTE:
Eddystone Enfield receivers often crack when the original barrel is removed. It is believed that the original barrels were torqued too tightly during assembly, and that during normal removal (whether by an armorer or civilian gunsmith) the reverse torque caused the receiver to crack.
To CHECK 1917 Enfield Receiver for CRACKS: 1) remove stock from rifle, 2) rub gasoline soaked cloth over receiver ring (where it meets the barrel), 3) watch receiver/barrel junction as gasoline evaporates . . . crack will appear as a dark line. That dark line is a crack in the receiver. THEY ARE UNSAFE TO SHOOT!
Generally, this problem is almost solely an issue with Eddystone made 1917, as Remington or Winchester made receivers rarely crack. I have an Eddystone (given to me) that was rechambered to the wildcat 30-338 Mag . . . which has a 3/4" crack on the Right side, running horizontally from the barrel junction on back. So I am searching for a Remington or Winchester receiver.
I owned an original Eddystone 1917 in stock military configuration for 15 years . . . that had no crack in the receiver, so was safe to shoot. It retained the original factory barrel.
REBARRELING:
This is merely a suggestion; if you own a 1917 that needs a new barrel (and you have a military or commercial replacement that you want fitted), removing metal from the barrel (where it meets the receiver) takes the pressure off, allowing the barrel to unscrew with little torque/stress to the receiver.
I had a sporterized 1917 that had no collector value, that I removed the barrel (almost by hand) after carefully cutting a groove (@ 1/8 away from receiver edge) with a hand held hacksaw. I took several breaks, to keep myself from rushing. The receiver was not damaged. I performed the 'gasoline' test after removing the barrel.
NOT ALL GUNSMTHS KNOW THIS, so be sure to discuss the above procedure with them (they can use a lathe to remove barrel metal/pressure just forward of the receiver) before starting work.