The king amongst fortresses: Eben-Emael

[Gnomey]

Great stuff Marcel!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Marcel]

Brest-Litovsk, Warsaw and several other locations in Poland are surrounded by forts. Oscarborg fortress protected Oslo (and sank KM Hipper). Norway had some other fortress complexes too.

Germany would have employed Pioneer against all these forts. I have not seen after action reports so I don't know exactly how the attacks were conducted. But it stands to reason pioneer would have employed hollow charges if they were available.

One would think that indeed, but I don't have prove about that. I'm pretty sure they did not use it against other forts in Belgium, although We know they had this weapon available in that time. So I highly doubt they actually used it a year before. The germans were very reluctant to use it openly. Remember it was new and top secret. Even their own soldiers were not allowed to know. It also required specialised troops. The group for Eben Emael had been training for 7 months in solitude.
But I do know that the Germans tested the hollow charges on Polish forts after Poland surrendered.
My guess is, I'm speculating here, that the hollow charges in this form were not really available in numbers for the Polish campaign, also that the Germans deliberately saved them up for this important fort in Belgium in orther to keep the secret a secret.

Would be nice if one of our polish friends could confirm that the hollow charges were indeed used during the Polish campaign, but until then, I think my assesment is a very plausible one.

 

[davebender]

KM Blucher was sunk by Oscarborg Fortress not KM Hipper. Both were Hipper class heavy cruisers.

 

[Marcel]

KM Blucher was sunk by Oscarborg Fortress not KM Hipper. Both were Hipper class heavy cruisers.

okay, well many sources claim and I still believe that this assault on Eben Emael was the first operational use of hollow charges for the Germans, but I'm open to anyone who knows about earlier use of this weapon. Ther of course isn't anything so insecure as an unproven " thruth" of course

Well guys, hope you enjoyed my little photoshoot at the fortress and I really hope that if you visit this part of the globe, say Achen, Kohln or the city of Maastricht, to drive a few kilometres into Belgium and visit this historic place. It is located 5 km from Maastricht, 30 km from Aachen and about 10 from Liege. The volunteers are very enthousiastic and can tell you a lot about the fortress. Tours are in different languages and if you're lucky, you'll even get a personal tour. Fees are 6 euro's for adults and 3 euro's for kids. Money is well spend and as everyone is a volunteer, everything is used to preserve the fort.


P.s. Sorry for the promotional talk, but I guess it is allowed in this case as it is for a good cause, preserving history.

 

[Shortround6]

It doesn't bother me since you aren't making anything from it. Thanks for the information and pictures.

 

[fastmongrel]

Shaped charge weapons might have been relatively new but the Munroe/Neumann effect was widely known about. The British had a shaped charge anti tank grenade the No 68 that entered service in October 1940 so I presume design would have started about a year earlier. Possibly the secrecy was not to hide the fact that shaped charges had been used but just the default military setting of secrecy. It should have been obvious to experts that a small group of men in a glider couldnt possibly carry enough HE to crack the fortress conventionally.

 

[Marcel]

It should have been obvious to experts that a small group of men in a glider couldnt possibly carry enough HE to crack the fortress conventionally.

Yup, true and that's why on german photo's of the assault you'll see german soldiers on dingys rowing to the fort, to suggest the fort was taken by a conventional assault. Also if you find any german news about the assault from that time, you'll notice that nowhere they mentioned gliders, charges or pioneers. And lastly, the crew of Eben Emael was kept in solitude for some time after the attack, so they could not reveal how the assault was done.
The hollow charge principle was known indeed. In fact, the charges used were designed in Switzerland I believe (using faulty memory here) and the plans were actually also sold to France, who ironically received them on may 10th, the day of the assault.

 

[fastmongrel]

Yup, true and that's why on german photo's of the assault you'll see german sodiers on dingys rowing to the fort, to suggest the fort was taken by a conventional assault. Also if you find any german news about the assault from that time, you'll notice that nowhere they mentioned gliders, charges or pioneers. And lastly, the crew of Eben Emael was kept in solitude for some time after the attack, so they could not reveal how the assault was done.

Thanks Marcel I didnt know about that. I wonder what would have been the result if the assault failed because of bad weather or bad navigation, would the fortress have stopped or slowed the German advance.

 

[Aaron Brooks Wolters]

Very interesting Marcel, thank you for sharing the information and photos sir!

 

[bob44]

Thanks for sharing these pictures Marcel.

 

[Marcel]

Thanks Marcel I didnt know about that. I wonder what would have been the result if the assault failed because of bad weather or bad navigation, would the fortress have stopped or slowed the German advance.

That was the general opinion back then. The task of the fortress was to defend or destroy all the crossings over the river Maas, the Willemskanaal and the Albert kanaal. In the Netherlands, all bridges were destroyed in time which already slowed down the Germans by 24 hours. If the fortress would have been active, crossing the Maas and the canels would have been very difficult indeed and we can only speculate how long this would have stopped the Germans. On the other hand, this was just the sideshow, a smokescreen. The real German push was through the Ardennes, not through the North of Belgium. It's hard to speculate what would have happened to that plan in this case.

 

[fastmongrel]

That was the general opinion back then. The task of the fortress was to defend or destroy all the crossings over the river Maas, the Willemskanaal and the Albert kanaal. In the Netherlands, all bridges were destroyed in time which already slowed down the Germans by 24 hours. If the fortress would have been active, crossing the Maas and the canels would have been very difficult indeed and we can only speculate how long this would have stopped the Germans. On the other hand, this was just the sideshow, a smokescreen. The real German push was through the Ardennes, not through the North of Belgium. It's hard to speculate what would have happened to that plan in this case.

Thinking about it if the fortress had held the Germans, it might have encouraged the BEF to try and stand in Belgium rather than retreat in relatively good order back into France and on to the Channel ports. As the BEF was pretty much doomed from the start that could have big consequences for Britain.

 

[Marcel]

Thinking about it if the fortress had held the Germans, it might have encouraged the BEF to try and stand in Belgium rather than retreat in relatively good order back into France and on to the Channel ports. As the BEF was pretty much doomed from the start that could have big consequences for Britain.

Yes, that's a possibillity, too. One should not neglect the impact on the moral this action had. And it goes both ways as you show. Don't know, can be anybody's guess and maybe an interesting 'whatif' topic.

 

[Juha]

Brest-Litovsk, Warsaw and several other locations in Poland are surrounded by forts. Oscarborg fortress protected Oslo (and sank KM Hipper). Norway had some other fortress complexes too.

Germany would have employed Pioneer against all these forts. I have not seen after action reports so I don't know exactly how the attacks were conducted. But it stands to reason pioneer would have employed hollow charges if they were available.

Those forts were older types than Eben-Emael, they didn't have massive steel turrets against which heavy hollow charges were especially good. At Oscarborg the 3 big 11" guns were in open position and had only minimal shields, so a couple of Bf 110s could have silenced them, the torpedo bunker would have needed pioneers and infantry to disable it.

Juha

 

[davebender]

At Oscarborg the 3 big 11" guns were in open position and had only minimal shields, so a couple of Bf 110s could have silenced them

That certainly would make more sense then what Germany did historically. Admiral Raeder's attack was a best case scenario for Norway as it's the type of attack the fortress was designed to defeat.