I think a sensible way to do things, pilots had to get used to where they were and how things were done, plus they had to get used to new types, maybe not a great idea to do them both at once.
The mustang and the 332nd
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fubar57
General
ARTESH
Chief Master Sergeant
From personal experience ...
"When something is repeated thousand times and with minor, sometimes, major, different narrations, and no "Official" reaction is done by related officials, it is 100 % sure, FAKE."
You can generalize it to whatever you want.
"When something is repeated thousand times and with minor, sometimes, major, different narrations, and no "Official" reaction is done by related officials, it is 100 % sure, FAKE."
You can generalize it to whatever you want.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
What kind of misinformation is this? P-39s not competitive with contemporary Axis aircraft? Who writes this stuff?
Sometimes people get so afraid of saying the wrong thing that they are afraid to say anything. I happen to believe that the essence of racial or ethnic stereotyping is not so much noticing a generalization as it is assuming that the generalization must apply to every individual.
Ergo, to notice that about three-fourths of NBA players are Black, and over half of NFL players are, and to draw some statistical generalizations from that, is not forbidden. But to say to a particular Black schoolboy, newly enrolled in the local high school, "Well, since you're Black we'll put you on the basketball team." would definitely be a bad thing. Maybe that particular student hates basketball and is no good at it, and would rather be in the chess club. One cannot assume that any given individual necessarily resembles the "statistical average" for a group.
By the same token, to say to a man (or woman, now), "Hey, you're Black, so you would make a good pilot." would be highly condescending and insulting; but to discover that Blacks in general could do especially well at an activity with a high "athleticism quotient" should not have been a surprise.
Exactly. He just got his whole plane so close that he couldn't miss. 40 times.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Pretty sure the P-40 was better armed than the P-39, too...
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
But it had a 37mm CANNON! And we all know that a 20mm cannon was worth three .50s, so a 37mm being almost twice as big is got to be worth at least six.
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,744
- May 13, 2018
As a bit of off topic trivia, my former father in law (19BG B-17 crew chief/top gunner) told of an occasion while going on leave to Australia, they often took a load of P-38 pilots along. On one flight, one of the crew came up to tell the pilot that one of the P-38 pilots was going to be sick if he couldn't see out. The pilot said, "That must be Bong." A space was made for him behind the pilot and he was fine. Bong got airsick if he couldn't see out.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
You sure he wasn't with the 43rd? The 19th was long gone by the time P-38s showed up. Of course, the 43rd absorbed a lot of 19th personnel when the 19th rotated home.
Can you imagine what would happen if someone said white people make better fighter pilots? 
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
Oop! Here we go! This thread's gonna get locked!
According to Doug Bader, guys with no legs make better fighter pilots.Can you imagine what would happen if someone said white people make better fighter pilots?
Well people who eat carrots make the best night fighters so maybe there is something in it? This was the 1940s version of an internet fact.
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Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 43,651
- Mar 26, 2007
Galland said sigar smokers are the best fighter pilots.
Well they made the best gamblers and gunfighters so its an obvious truth.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Regarding the Red Tails and Groundhogs, there's this from the USAF Historical Support Division:
The 99th Squadron, equipped with Curtiss P-40s and later Bell P-39s, was sent to French Morocco in April 1943, and it continued combat service from bases in Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy. In February 1944, the 99th Squadron was joined by three other fighter squadrons, the 100th, the 301st, and the 302nd, and all four squadrons constituted the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Colonel (later Lieutenant General) Benjamin O. Davis Jr.
... and from an article about the 332nd's flight surgeons (p.102):
The 100th struck their tents and bivouacked on 20 February in preparation for a three-hour convoy from Montecorvino to Capodichino the next day. Upon arrival at their new base, the troops received mail from home—their first contact with their families since before Christmas—and "morale jumped real high." They set up their tents "next to the 347th Fighter Squadron" at the new base. Sixteen P-39 Airacobras arrived on the 22 February, and the squadron began familiarization training in this new aircraft.
The 99th Squadron, equipped with Curtiss P-40s and later Bell P-39s, was sent to French Morocco in April 1943, and it continued combat service from bases in Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy. In February 1944, the 99th Squadron was joined by three other fighter squadrons, the 100th, the 301st, and the 302nd, and all four squadrons constituted the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Colonel (later Lieutenant General) Benjamin O. Davis Jr.
... and from an article about the 332nd's flight surgeons (p.102):
The 100th struck their tents and bivouacked on 20 February in preparation for a three-hour convoy from Montecorvino to Capodichino the next day. Upon arrival at their new base, the troops received mail from home—their first contact with their families since before Christmas—and "morale jumped real high." They set up their tents "next to the 347th Fighter Squadron" at the new base. Sixteen P-39 Airacobras arrived on the 22 February, and the squadron began familiarization training in this new aircraft.
drgondog
Major
Dave - for sure in training, still not sure about combat ops but neither 33rd or 324th or 86FBG flew P-39
Good catch. The timing is curious for two reasons. First, the 100th, 301st and 302nd were intact within 332nd FG, and my records indicate that they converted from P-40 to P-47s in April, 1944. The second curiosity is the Very large disparity in the MACR number appears to be a year apart, namely April/May 1944 and April 1945.
Curious. in mid 1942, the 31st, 52nd, 81st and 350th FG trained in P-39s and were replaced when assigned to 8thAF with Spitfires. When they moved to 12th AF.
For the life of me I am drawing a blank on the 12thAF units which retained P-39 in early 1943. EDIT - 350th retained P-39s as well as 81st.
From AOHT, there is a note that
"Dec 15th 1943 - the 332nd, assigned to 15th AF, equipped with P-39Q, are late and will not be in theatre for several weeks"
"Jan 11, 1944 The Mediterranean Air Force are 3 sqd attached to 5th BW, the 350th FG, 2 sqd in French Air Force, and to 387 FW RAF.
"Feb 44, the 332nd FG with P-39Q-20 joins the 15th AF"
I know from my own research that General Schlatter, Directorate Air Defense but also tasked with aircaft allocation, declared that the P-51A/B would replace -39 and P-40 for CAS in spring 1943...
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special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,744
- May 13, 2018
Probably 43rd, as he didn't reminisce very often. With the 19th, he traveled to Australia on the Queen Mary after her first run after conversion to troopship. He recalled there were 12 bunks to a room that in peace time held two. He showed me the compartment tag from the door. Not being Naval personnel, the troops didn't like the idea of not having escort and not zigzaging being reassured they were too fast for submarine attack. When he was in the mood to talk, I had to listen fast and ask no questions as it derailed the conversation. The photos he showed, I remember, was flying near Mt.Fuji in B-29 formations. Most of his remembering was of B-17 incidents.
Simon Thomas
Senior Airman
Apologies for heading further off topic.
This is the Queen Mary ~May 1940 on the way from Australian to the UK carrying Australian troops. The photograph was taken by my Grandfather, who was in Australian 9th division.
This is the Queen Mary ~May 1940 on the way from Australian to the UK carrying Australian troops. The photograph was taken by my Grandfather, who was in Australian 9th division.
