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And a French Aviation magazine on the other hand is reliable?
While not countering your point, I think the real OOB would give value to your opinion, not the glossy paper.
Hauptmann Erich Hartmann..............352
Major Gerhard Barkhorn..................301
Major Gunther Rall..........................275
Oberleutnant Otto Kittel...................267
Major Walter Nowotny***...............258
Major Wilhelm Batz........................237
Major Erich Rudorffer......................222
Oberleutnant Heinrich Bar....................220
Oberst Hermann Graf.........................212
Major Theodor Weissenburger............208
Oberleutnant Hans Philipp...................206
Oberleutnant Walter Schuck................206
Major Heinrich Ehrler.........................204
Oberleutnant Anton Hafner.................204
Hauptmann Helmut Lipfert.................203
Were all the claims for these aces bogus as well?
Juha, a little net search found this, Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80? - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum
The French magazine article is the Khazanov article.
Hello
Don't know on the article in la Fana but Khazanov's article drew some hard critic from some Western researchers.
On Weissenberger, it seems that JG 5 had some serious claim accuracy problems from mid-42 onwards, or at least so it seemed to be in 2003. I don't know if that has changed later on.
Juha
Well, exactly as you describe below. I only see a magazine, which doesn't look very reliable by the looks of it. But if you had said it's a Kotelnikov article, it would have been much more convincing.If you understand what do you want to mean, i don't. Precise your mind.
Depends on what you're interested in. There are not that many Dutch magazines which I could recommend.BTW.Have you got any reliable dutch magazine to advice to us?
I would then like to know how many of the victories of these other Experten were confirmed by Russian sources ? If only a part of their victories could be confirmed it says more about the conformity of the Russian archives ... If this only happens to Hartmann and a couple of others, then there could be some truth in it.
But then again, why did the Russians put a price on his head ?????
Kris
If i would say my real opinion about some of those posts, i will be banned from the forum. I won't go further...We already went through this before: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/hartmann-liar-1437.html
And Altea, I have always read they put 10,000 roebels on his head but as with 99.99 % of the Russian stuff I know or thought I knew I have not seen an original document about it. In fact, if I may be so blunt, it is a bit of an idiotic and provocative comment. Do you think I can read Russian? Instead my dear Altea, just say what you have to say which is that there is no Russian document on the price on Hartmann's head and that is all a myth. Which is what you wanted to say anyway, isn't it?
(again not meaning to insult you, I know you mean well)
Kris
I would then like to know how many of the victories of these other Experten were confirmed by Russian sources ? If only a part of their victories could be confirmed it says more about the conformity of the Russian archives ... If this only happens to Hartmann and a couple of others, then there could be some truth in it.
Kris
Hello Adler
IMHO in this there isn't question of propaganda but secret air force reports on losses and in all air forces replacemets were allocated mostly according to reports on losses. Of course there might be some irregularities same way than there are in LW records, for ex one well known case when a Bf 110G was reported lost because of engine problems when in fact it was shot down by Soviet AA-mgs during a train busting attack. But there was a special reason to that "lying".
Juha