Tripple 7, unit of US fliers, fighting in Russia during WW2

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i knew that in ww2 the ussr had p-40s but i didn't know this
 
I am fairly certain that this claim is not legitimate. However, I have read that US Pilots did fly into Russia, generally on a ferry operations, after the entry of the US. They flew LL aircraft from Alaska, into somewhere in central siberia. I suspect, even that there was some form of conversion course going on, being run by the Americans.

The Alaskan route became increasingly important as an air ferry service route as the war progressed. A lot of Lend Lease also wa delivered to Russia by the Persian corridor, but this took a lot of time to develop. My friend, is a bit of a railway buff, and has a theory to explain the disastrous famines in India in 1943. There is an unexplainable drop in the amount of rolling stock in india in the early part of 1943. We think that this might be because a lot of it was transferred to Persia.Certainly the majority of the locos were of US manufacture, but it is not necessarily the case that the Americans provided the rolling stock in such proportions as well

IMO however, the greatest contribution of Lend lease was not the planes the tanks or even the trucks, but the food supplied to the SU. Enouigh food apparently to completely feed the Soviet army for more than two years. Think of how much manpower that freed, given that before and after the war the USSR could barely feed itself.
 
I also know that early in the war the british were strictly restricted to certain cities only, particulaly Murmansk. From memory, they established a Hurrican equipped unit there, along with a Hampden equipped unit . These units were severely restricted by the Soviets in what they were allowed to do, and where they were allowed to go. Soviets feared a Beourgoise (cant spell that freakin word) counter revolution almost as much as Nazi conquest. However, when the going really started to get tough for the Russians they started to make some very unreasonable demands on the English. For example they wanted the committment of 30 divs to the east front, something the british were quite unable to do.
 
Njaco:

Interesting pic of a fully equiped modern infantryman with an endomorphic body type. Very few people understand the advantages of the endomorph in modern combat scenarios.

'Roll rate has become an important criteria, just as it was for WWII fighter planes. Endomorph soldiers can move laterally, employing a rollling maneuver/tactic, much more effectively than mesomorph or ectomorph soldiers.

The overdeveloped steroid hyped mesomorph can now be employed properly, in a load bearing capacity.

This allocation of human resources is being studied closely by special operations forces. It may have particular application in a long term conflict which requires drafting soldiers from the general North American population which currently has a high rate of overweight/obesity.

Fortunately, most of our enemies do not have the resources (food) to achieve this effective modern combat form. I myself have been working on this for several years, but having an ectomorph body type, it has been a challenge.

I mean no offence to the youngster in the photo. I got my clock cleaned by a guy his size when I was his age so have nothing but respect.


Claidemore
 
There was a conversion course going on but I believe it was up in Murmansk. If you read Hub Zemke's Autobiography, he says he was one of the pilots that did was up there. More a testing to make sure the airplanes flew ok and the Russians knew what everything meant.

He also notes that he chased (but did not catch) a DO17 in a P40.

Long and short, it is a good story but not accurate.
 
Quick question....were the LL aircraft supplied given Western, or russian dials and guages. Was this a problem....or were the russians given quick courses in how to read english.

I do know there was some confusion for the french (and theiur metric system) when given US Cash Carry equipment. There was some delay in the delivery of certain items, as the french insisted as much as practical on the fitment of french equipment (guns, gauges and the like), I wonder if there was any of that in the Soviet receipts of LL (including British lend Lease, the hurris, Spits, and others)
 
Lend Lease aircraft had American/British gauges. Once the first guy had them figured out, he simply instructed the new pilots, 'warm up the engine till this gauge reads here, max dive speed is here, landing speed is here etc. They didn't have to be able to read English, they just had to know that if the temperature got to a certain point on the gauge, the engine was going to be toast.

There was quite a bit of cross-national use of equipment. Photojournalists of all nations tended to use German equipment (Leica Contax), both captured and purchased pre-war. The Soviets built up an incredible photography culture after the war, based on captured German equipment and designs. While we in North America were taking snapshots with Kodak Brownies and Instamatics, the masses in the Soviet Union were equipped with millions of excellent Leica and Contax copies. I have a pre-war licensed Soviet Leica copy (FED) and it still takes excellent photographs.
 
Another ting about the French a/c is that the throttles opened "backward" ie push fore ward to close pull back to open to full.

And the US a/c from before lend-lease, that were actually purchased, like the Finns' Gladiators and B-239's had Finnish writing and measurements on the instruments. Same for French Hawk 75's (throttle and all).



But back to the story, why would they add this part:

It just seems odd to add...
 

They ferried the aircraft up to Alaska on the North West Staging route at which point Russian ferry pilots took over . Tha Alaska Highway and the Staging route were the second largest project of WW2 after the Manhattan
 
There's a lot os stuff about the lend-lease aircraft in russia here:

Articles

I also read a story about some young US ferry pilots who were mocking the older russian ferry pilots (mostly ex Aeroflot pilots) in the mess hall of some alaskan air field, maybe it was Fairbanks. Then the old hands took of in their B-25's, turned around and made a low and slow roll in formation, all of them. They were never mocked after that. I don't know where I got this and I don't know if it's a true story, but it's a good one. You can't beat experience.

Krabat
 
I have an opinion regarding the number 7's in the original posting about the Triple 7 AVG flying for the Soviets...

The 7th Ferrying Squadron, 7th Ferrying Group of Air Transport Command delivered Lend Lease aircraft from via the Northwest Staging route from Great Falls Montana to Fairbanks Alaska. Russian/Soviet pilots took delivery at Fairbanks and flew the aircraft to Nome, then across the Bering Straits to Siberia and beyond.

The Soviets were absolutely firm about NOT allowing any US or Allied pilots to fly into their territory. The only exception to this was allowing a B-25 and a C-47, both crewed by Soviets, but carrying US personnel to follow the route as far as Moscow in order to determine the suitability of Siberian airfields for the aircraft being ferried.

An unofficial intention by the Americans was to see if any Soviet Far Eastern airfields might be suitable for American bomber to use to attack Japan. Unfortunately for the US, the Russians were not prepared to allow such missions since they were not at war with Japan.

In any case, due to Soviet distrust of western influences, no Lend-Lease aircraft other than those flown by Soviet crews flew further than Nome, and the vast majority no further than Fairbanks. Even during a time when there was a log jam of aircraft deliveries due to a shortage of Russian pilots, the Soviet government firmly declined a US offer to have American pilots take aircraft into Siberia to help expedite things.

So my conclusion (mostly based on the book Warplanes to Alaska by Blake W. Smith, and Googling - 7th Ferrying Squadron, or 7th Ferrying Group) leads me to have strong doubts that any AVG organization flew for the Soviets in WW2.

If they weren't allowing ferry pilots to deliver airplanes to them, it seems highly unlikely Soviet authorities would be terribly welcoming to combat units. (IMHO)

By the way I'd love to connect with folks who have info or photos of anything related to the Northwest Staging Route, or ALSIB (Alaska Siberia) or North West Sector Ferrying Command - all names for the route. Also interested in Alaska Highway and associated airfields information.

*full disclosure: As I mentioned a few days ago on the Basic thread when I signed up at this site (Noob checking in 12/30) I am involved in a project to retrace the Northwest Staging Route and have done a bit of research on the subject of Lend-Lease. Check out our foundation's website Bravo368.org

Cheers
Kerry
 
The only American pilots that would of been remotely welcomed by the Soviets during WW2 were those who fought in the Spanish Civil War-and the best one of the lot, Frank Tinker put a bullet in his head in 1939.

well there were the shuttle raids of course.
 

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