Turretless Avengers

[Maxrobot1]

Someone had a bad day.
This is the only wartime photo I've seen of an Avenger with the turret removed. I've seen the drawings and post-war photos but this one is unusual. Anyone have any to post? Anti-sub patrols from escort carriers did not expect to meet enemy aircraft, so the turretless types were not needed. By the way, does anyone know of an Avenger gunner shooting down an enemy aircraft?
A screenshot from a compilation of accidents with no context.

 

[Greg Boeser]

One maybe got Butch O'Hare!

 

[Wurger]

the source: Eastern TBM-3 Avenger

 

[R Leonard]

Some 112 USN TBF/TBM gunners (that's gunners, not pilots, a whole different subject) were credited with 41.5 shoot downs, 21.5 probable shoot downs, and 41.5 damaged over the course of the war.

 

[GrauGeist]

Look for a TBM-3R, it was configured to carry passengers, so no turret or belly gun.

 

[coldkiwi1]

RNZAF Target tugs

 

[Capt. Vick]

Two questions:

1) What might that be in the center of the fuselage rounded?

2) Could the rear of the top glazing be open? It seems to end so abruptly.

 

[GrauGeist]

1) What might that be in the center of the fuselage rounded?

That's an early version of an Early Warning system (AN/APS-20) mounted on a TBM-3W and the extra outrider vertical stabilizers were to help stabilize the aircraft (that radome played hell with it's aerodynamics).

 

[Wildcat]

Two questions:

1) What might that be in the center of the fuselage rounded?

If you're talking about the Kiwi Avenger, it's a silver fern. It was used post-war by the RNZAF.

 

[GreenKnight121]

Specifically, 1957-67.

National Markings | New Zealand Air Force | Aeroflight

 

[Barrett]

One maybe got Butch O'Hare!

Actually that version was laid to rest (so to speak) in Lundstrom & Ewing's definitive bio "Fateful Rendezvous." They concluded that O'Hare unknowing crossed ahead of a Betty, giving the nose gunner an unobstructed shot. VT-6 gunner Alvin Kernan lived under the cloud for most of his life.

 

[Barrett]

Someone had a bad day.
This is the only wartime photo I've seen of an Avenger with the turret removed. I've seen the drawings and post-war photos but this one is unusual. Anyone have any to post? Anti-sub patrols from escort carriers did not expect to meet enemy aircraft, so the turretless types were not needed. By the way, does anyone know of an Avenger gunner shooting down an enemy aircraft?
A screenshot from a compilation of accidents with no context.

That's the Atlantic/ETO scheme, insignia white with gull gray (?). As noted, ASW aircraft were seldom concerned with aerial opposition, especially when they flew at night.

 

[JCH]

Wasn't the Avenger also used for COD? Did they have turrets removed too?

 

[GrauGeist]

Wasn't the Avenger also used for COD? Did they have turrets removed too?

Yes, the TBM-3R - no turret, no ventral gun position.

 

[J4F-2]

Well, there was this one too. TBM-3E (BuNo 69465) 18 January 1946, at Patuxent River, MD.
I don't know if it was part of the TBM-5 program or not. It doesn't quit fit the bill for -5, the seating is wrong.

 

[Barf]

If you're talking about the Kiwi Avenger, it's a silver fern. It was used post-war by the RNZAF.

Close, Wildcat. That Fern is the earlier 'White Fern' which first appeared in 1958, and was superseded by the 'Silver' fern in 1960, after complaints that the white one looked too much like a 'white feather'.
The White fern was a simple outline that was painted or stenciled on to the roundel, whilst the silver version was a detailed (if somewhat fragile) decal.

 

[Barf]

Two questions:

1) What might that be in the center of the fuselage rounded?

2) Could the rear of the top glazing be open? It seems to end so abruptly.

The rear glazing was identical to the turreted aircraft, The aircraft pictured was modified to this state by simply removing the turret and fairing over the hole with sheet aluminium.

 

[GreenKnight121]

OK, a bit post-war (the second is 1952 aboard CVB-41 USS Midway):

COD variant (and yes, there is a lot of space inside for passengers or cargo):

looking fore:

looking aft:

 

[JCH]

Great pictures. Who would have been doing the modifications on these to convert them to this configuration?

 

[GrauGeist]

Great pictures. Who would have been doing the modifications on these to convert them to this configuration?

They were made in theae various configurations by Grumman and General Motors Aircraft division.