Two FAA Squadrons, Vought Chesapeakes ordered to Singapore, Aug 1941

[Thumpalumpacus]

Anyway, getting back to the point of the thread. I dunno what, if anything the Chesapeake is going to do other than provide the British with yet more aeroplanes they will lose on Japan's successful campaign in the region, that is, if they are not destroyed on the ground in raids against the airfields in advance of the invasion. Nevertheless, more airframes probably couldn't do the Allies any harm, but it does depend entirely on how effectively they are used once they get there.

I'm not sure they'd be able to do much against the Japanese in those jungles given the limited training time over the terrain they're fighting over, either. CAS wasn't so highly developed at that stage, I think.

 

[buffnut453]

You say that, Mark, then you post a picture demonstrating exactly my point... sheesh...

There are plenty of aircraft that are worse looking than the Skua. Personally, I think it's a rather handsome steed...it just needed a more powerful rubber band at the front end.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Dunno if the Skua is better looking than the Stuka; apart from an exaggerated rudder the latter looks purposeful, but the Skua looks misshapen and awkward, with its rearward swept undercarriage, upturned wingtips, elongated nose and near vertical windscreen, and a tail that looks as if its set too far forward. It's a bit upsetting to the eye.

I think from the right angle the Skua can look okay.

Better than the Chesapeake.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

You're saying mean things about the Skua. I'm not sure we can be friends any more.

View attachment 659032

Forgive what might be an ignorant question, but was there a reason the design included such an unaerodynamic windscreen?

 

[buffnut453]

To be honest, I don't know why the RN didn't throw a couple of Skua squadrons towards Singapore. By 1941, it was pretty much out of front-line service but it had comparable performance to the Chesapeake (slightly lower ceiling, bomb load and top speed but higher cruising speed...and the range was ample for Malaya).

 

[nuuumannn]

And dive bombers would have greater accuracy than even low-level bombing.

This is true of course, but would it be enough to change the inevitable? Under very different circumstances the situation in Singapore might have had a different outcome, but I doubt two squadrons of Chesapeakes is going to do much more, as we know. Nevertheless, put them to use, can't do worse.

 

[buffnut453]

This is true of course, but would it be enough to change the inevitable? Under very different circumstances the situation in Singapore might have had a different outcome, but I doubt two squadrons of Chesapeakes is going to do much more, as we know. Nevertheless, put them to use, can't do worse.

Entirely agree. The best thing they could do for Singapore would be to provide more fighter squadrons...but, as has been discussed numerous times, that probably wasn't going to happen in 1941.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think from the right angle the Skua can look okay.

View attachment 659042

 

[nuuumannn]

I'm not sure they'd be able to do much against the Japanese in those jungles given the limited training time over the terrain they're fighting over, either. CAS wasn't so highly developed at that stage, I think.

True, against shipping it might have some success, but of course the limiting factor the Allies had was their warning time of impending action.

I think from the right angle the Skua can look okay.

True, but you cannae escape that windscreen...

Forgive what might be an ignorant question, but was there a reason the design included such an unaerodynamic windscreen?

Better visibility in level flight and a better aiming point in the dive. Kind'a spoils its looks IMO, and that long snout. The Skua was a big beastie and the pilot is sat real high above the carrier deck.

 

[buffnut453]

View attachment 659048

If you don't behave yourself, I'll send you to stand in the naughty corner....oh, wait...you live there!

 

[Admiral Beez]

To be honest, I don't know why the RN didn't throw a couple of Skua squadrons towards Singapore.

Me too. Would you transfer them to the RAF for CAS or stay with FAA for maritime strike? As it was, IIRC from Bloody Shambles the FAA in Malaya was a total of one Swordfish and some Shagbats.

 

[nuuumannn]

To be honest, I don't know why the RN didn't throw a couple of Skua squadrons towards Singapore.

Yup, true, the type was withdrawn as a frontline type in 1941, so examples could theoretically have been sent, but by whom, of course and then the usual problems arise, like spares support etc...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

True, against shipping it might have some success, but of course the limiting factor the Allies had was their warning time of impending action.

Right, I get that. Against shipping it would likely be more useful, if the opportunity arose.

Better visibility in level flight and a better aiming point in the dive. Kind'a spoils its looks IMO, and that long snout. The Skua was a big beastie and the pilot is sat real high above the carrier deck.

I'm thinking more about drag than looks. I can see your point about aiming, perhaps, but that long nose still means a steep dive and less time for target-acquisition, no?

 

[buffnut453]

I'm not sure they'd be able to do much against the Japanese in those jungles given the limited training time over the terrain they're fighting over, either. CAS wasn't so highly developed at that stage, I think.

Actually, the Japanese weren't advancing through the jungle. They were charging down the west coast road and only dispersing to the jungle on either side once they encountered resistance. The much-derided Buffalo established a pretty solid reputation as a strafer, despite only conducting that mission on a few occasions (and, even than, Tsuji mis-identified them as Hurricanes (Hurricane envy perhaps?) which they can't have been because the Hurricane was never used in the strafing role in Malaya...but I digress...again!).

I think a squadron or two of dive bombers would have been rather useful at cutting Japanese resupply and taking out bridges to slow down the advance.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Actually, the Japanese weren't advancing through the jungle. They were charging down the west coast road and only dispersing to the jungle on either side once they encountered resistance. The much-derided Buffalo established a pretty solid reputation as a strafer, despite only conducting that mission on a few occasions (and, even than, Tsuji mis-identified them as Hurricanes (Hurricane envy perhaps?) which they can't have been because the Hurricane was never used in the strafing role in Malaya...but I digress...again!).

I think a squadron or two of dive bombers would have been rather useful at cutting Japanese resupply and taking out bridges to slow down the advance.

Would or could they be called in before contact sent the IJA into the woodwork?

ETA: Dropping bridges could be useful, but could they actually do the job?

 

[buffnut453]

I'm thinking more about drag than looks. I can see your point about aiming, perhaps, but that long nose still means a steep dive and less time for target-acquisition, no?

Standard practice was to fly past the target until it appeared behind the wing trailing edge, and than pull up and over into the dive. The pilot could keep eyes on the target the entire time except while it was obscured by the wing during straight and level flight. Bottom line - plenty of time for target acquisition and the Skua's nose had no impact on that one way or the other.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What chance does the Skua have against the Nate and Oscar?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

What chance does the Skua have against the Nate and Oscar?

Without escorts I bet it'd be ugly.

 

[buffnut453]

What chance does the Skua have against the Nate and Oscar?

Better armed...but slower, less manoeuverable, and with a lower service ceiling.

 

[buffnut453]

Would or could they be called in before contact sent the IJA into the woodwork?

Well, the Buffalos were effective at strafing with 4x 50cals (or, in some cases, 2x 50cals and 2x .303s). I think the 4x .303s of the Skua would be just as good against troops and soft-skinned vehicles moving down a road.

ETA: Dropping bridges could be useful, but could they actually do the job?

Good question...I suspect the 500lb SAP that the Skua could carry would probably be good enough. Regardless, hammering the road at one end of the bridge with those bombs would certainly make life hard for the Japanese.