Typhoon MK.1B 439 RCAF Squadron

[Totalize]

Hi Guys,

I am hoping someone can help me with regards to a Tiffy I wish to do from 439 Squadron.

I wish to do F/L Clarence Shaver or F/O Hugh Fraser's Typhoon who were the first canadian pilots to shoot down an ME262.

However, I have no information on whether the aircraft was a later one with 4 blade propeller and larger tail services with the smaller exhausts(sorry for the lack of the correct wording here) or the longer more protruding ones. Also the decals for the specific aircraft are pricey at $28 but I do not know where to source a similar cheaper generic set.

If any one can provide some insight or references it would be much appreciated. I have the Hasegawa kit for this purpose and plan to add the aires cockpit, Ultracast radiator, wheels and cockpit seat and perhaps the 4 blade prop and tail surfaces if required. Also do you guys know where I could source some resin bombs and rockets? Fnally, did this aircraft have invasion stripes on it? This is going to cost a bundle but I plan to go in stages

Regards,
Dave.

 

[Wurger]

Here is another Typhoon with the same code but of a different serial.

 

[Crimea_River]

JR 500 was flown by F/O R.N. MacDonald on Nov 3, 1944 when he lost his life in a mock dogfight. It was a 3 bladed Tiffie.

I don't have a picture of Saver's rig but most pics of 439 Squadron tiffies show 4 bladed props but there are some with 3. Shaver's 262 shoot down occurred on Feb 14, 1945 and, according to my reference, he was flying Typhoon MN144. Fraser was in RB281, the subject of the first profile.

 

[Totalize]

JR 500 was flown by F/O R.N. MacDonald on Nov 3, 1944 when he lost his life in a mock dogfight. It was a 3 bladed Tiffie.

I don't have a picture of Saver's rig but most pics of 439 Squadron tiffies show 4 bladed props but there are some with 3. Shaver's 262 shoot down occurred on Feb 14, 1945 and, according to my reference, he was flying Typhoon MN144. Fraser was in RB281, the subject of the first profile.

Thanks very much for the info. So would Shaver's aircraft be 5V H instead of 5V X?

Dave,

 

[Totalize]

Wurger thanks for the pic. interesting.

 

[Crimea_River]

Thanks very much for the info. So would Shaver's aircraft be 5V H instead of 5V X?

Dave,

Yes, digging a bit further in my reference "Typhoon and Tempest - The Canadian Story" by Halliday, MN144 is stated to be 5V-H. No pics though I'm afraid.

 

[wells]

At some point during production of MN or MP serials, the 4 blade became standard. MN235 in RAF Museum is a 3 blade, so MN144 is probably also a 3 blade. Subsequent batches ( PD, RB and SW serials ) were equipped with 4 blade propellers

Typhoon IB Performance Data

 

[Airframes]

Careful about using the RAF Museum Typhoon as a reference. It was never used by the RAF, spending it's life in the USA until returned and restored in the 1970s. On return from the 'States, many parts were missing, and some American additions were included, such as the instrument panel marking and pilots notes! Most of the cowling panels are replica facsimiles, the radiator is from a truck, with cardboard trunking, and the prop spinner is a two-part representation from a different aircraft type.
That said, when produced and sent to the USA, it would have had the three-blade prop.
It's often difficult to ascertain which Typhoons had the later tail plane and four blade prop, as these were often retro-fitted to earlier airframes also. One clue, although by no means definite, is the position of the Sky tail band if worn. The larger tail plane normally infringed into the trailing edge of this band.
Of course, almost every variation and combination could be seen within the same squadron, with four blade prop and 'old' tail, three blade prop and 'new' tail, and both types serving alongside each other at the same time.

 

[Totalize]

Yes, digging a bit further in my reference "Typhoon and Tempest - The Canadian Story" by Halliday, MN144 is stated to be 5V-H. No pics though I'm afraid.

CR,

Thanks again for the data. This is very helpful. I am kind of wanting to do a four blader with larger tail surfaces so at this point it looks like Shaver flew a 3 blader.

Cheers,

 

[Totalize]

At some point during production of MN or MP serials, the 4 blade became standard. MN235 in RAF Museum is a 3 blade, so MN144 is probably also a 3 blade. Subsequent batches ( PD, RB and SW serials ) were equipped with 4 blade propellers

Typhoon IB Performance Data

Wells,

Thanks for the link.

So looking at the link and your comments Fraser's a/c having ser. no. RB281 would have most likely been a 4 blader with larger tail surfaces, exhaust shrouds and be listed as 5V X?

 

[Totalize]

Careful about using the RAF Museum Typhoon as a reference. It was never used by the RAF, spending it's life in the USA until returned and restored in the 1970s. On return from the 'States, many parts were missing, and some American additions were included, such as the instrument panel marking and pilots notes! Most of the cowling panels are replica facsimiles, the radiator is from a truck, with cardboard trunking, and the prop spinner is a two-part representation from a different aircraft type.
That said, when produced and sent to the USA, it would have had the three-blade prop.
It's often difficult to ascertain which Typhoons had the later tail plane and four blade prop, as these were often retro-fitted to earlier airframes also. One clue, although by no means definite, is the position of the Sky tail band if worn. The larger tail plane normally infringed into the trailing edge of this band.
Of course, almost every variation and combination could be seen within the same squadron, with four blade prop and 'old' tail, three blade prop and 'new' tail, and both types serving alongside each other at the same time.

Very informative information Airframes.

I have done mostly armour models since returning to the hobby and like a lot of armoured units it looks like aircraft units also had a lot of variation in the features of the various aircraft in the unit.

 

[wells]

I would guess that both aircraft probably had 4 blade propellers at that point, with MN144 being retrofitted. The 4 blade replaced the 3 blade in production in early 1944, so it doesn't make much sense that any airplanes in 1945 would still be equipped with the 3 blade. If for no other reason than consistency within the squadron, for maintenance, etc.

 

[Wurger]

Finally I found a picture of a Typhoon 5VoX of the squadron with interesting info in its caption.. The pic and profile source Osprey - Aircraft of the Aces 027 - Typhoon and Tempest Aces.

 

[Airframes]

Good stuff Wojtek. I was about to have a look in '2nd TAF' by Chris Shores, but you've got the answer here.

 

[Totalize]

Finally I found a picture of a Typhoon 5VoX of the squadron with interesting info in its caption.. The pic and profile source Osprey - Aircraft of the Aces 027 - Typhoon and Tempest Aces.

This is really great information and most helpful. Looks like the CamMilair decals are the only ones that have all the correct decals, such as RB281, 5V_X, nickey and kills decals

 

[Wurger]

Glad I could help.

 

[Totalize]

Hi Guys,

Just an update as to where I am at on this subject. I have decided I am going to do Hugh Fraser's Typhoon called Nickey. I have Hasegawa's 09060 kit. This kit has the 3 blade prop and rockets but no bombs. From what you guys have said here and from what I have learned Fraser's plane would have a 4 blade prop. Also, because it was Canadian it would not carry rockets as the Canadian squadrons were assigned dive bombing duty and did not use rockets. Also, because it is a late war Tfffie it carried the C1 roundels on the upper and lower wings. It probably had unshrouded exhausts though I believe it arrived from the factory with shrouds?? Maybe I am incorrect here?

So, to do this aircraft I plan the following.

Decal Set: Aeromaster 48-283.
This set is long out of production but has all the decals to do Nickey. After much searching I found a set and have ordered it.

Cockpit:
Purchased the Airies Cockpit set for this aircraft

Masks:
Also purchased the eduard canopy mask set for the kit.

Larger Tail surfaces.
Ordered a set from Ultracast. I suspect these aircraft had these by the end of the war.

4 Blade prop.
Ordered as well from Ultracast

Wheels.
Ordered the Tyhoon set from Barracuda Studios

Exhausts.
Ordered a set from Ultracast.

Bombs.
Don't have a set of these. I have the Hasegawa car door Typhoon and it has bombs. I was planning to use this set and the pylons that come with it but would really like an alternate option. I have the Tamiya Mosquito and it has a set of bombs and pylons. Could I use these?
Any suggestions here would be appreciated.

 

[Totalize]

N/t

 

[Airframes]

The Mosquito pylons were similar to those used on the later Typhoon. The bomb carried was normally short-tailed, so you may have to alter the Mosquito bombs.

 

[Totalize]

The Mosquito pylons were similar to those used on the later Typhoon. The bomb carried was normally short-tailed, so you may have to alter the Mosquito bombs.

Thanks Terry,

I think the mosquito bombs are 500 pounders. Did the the RAF/ 2 TAF use different 500 pound bombs depending on the aircraft? I will compare the tamiya bombs with the hasegawa ones.