Udet- Germany really did not intend to Invade UK ever.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No actually it was Germany that started it first, not Britain or France. Germany invaded Poland not England or France. There is no way to cover it up or hide it.

2nd I will say that the only way France and England could have had a hand in starting WW2 is the Versaille treaty that Germany was placed under.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'll second Alder's sentiment here.

Britian and France waited until September 3rd to declare war on Germany, 2 full days after Germany began the invasion of Poland on September 1.

It was Germany that was the instigator, because it was the invading nation and the active party The actions of the UK and France were in response to Germanys actions. Their actions were reactive, not proactive.

There was no formal German declaration of war against Poland, the LuftWaffe simply started area bombing Wielun at 4:40 in the morning. The Westerplatte was shelled by the German battleship Schleswig-Holstein at 4:45 and German troops began to move across the border at 8 in the morning.

 

[plan_D]

They moved off at 0445. Both Guderian and Von Mellenthin state this in their books.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

Sources say that radar was a vital aspect to the winning of BoB and that the Germans didnt have any, in fact, the German Radar was the one that was more modern-looking and that they didnt know the british had radar cause they were towers which didnt look anything like radar,

how long did it take for Germany to capture Poland anyway?

 

[Gnomey]

About 4 weeks they surrendered on the 29th of September 1939 having been invaded on the 1st of September.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Sources say that radar was a vital aspect to the winning of BoB and that the Germans didnt have any, in fact, the German Radar was the one that was more modern-looking and that they didnt know the british had radar cause they were towers which didnt look anything like radar,

Germany was aware of British radar, they just weren't very sucessful at countering it, either through destroying the Chain Home and Chain Low radar systems, or using electrnic jamming.

Germany made several reconnisance missions of British radar sites in May 1939, with a Zepplin no less . General Wolfgang Martini was charged with acquiring the location of British radar sites, thier operational status and the wavelength they operated at. Loaded with recievers and technicians the Graff Zepplin made several two up the British coastline, in late May and early August.

On both runs all the recievers picked up was high volumes of electronic noise. No high frequency signals, such as those used by the Freya or Wurzburg radars Germany was developing. British radar actually used lower frequencies at higher power than thier German counterparts. A German scientist fell from the zepplin to his death on British soil on the second mission and all subsequent flights were canceled.

The failure of the German survey efforts were a great boon to Britain in 1940, when Germany failed to understand how valuable the radar network was to the RAF and how vulnerable the Chain Home and Chain Low networks actually were. Many stations could of been replaced by the new Mobile Radar Units, but their detection range was around 30 miles shorter than the C.H. stations, so they gave less warning.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

"fell" from the zeppelin? he must have been drunk or something

 

[Hunter368]

No actually it was Germany that started it first, not Britain or France. Germany invaded Poland not England or France. There is no way to cover it up or hide it.

2nd I will say that the only way France and England could have had a hand in starting WW2 is the Versaille treaty that Germany was placed under.

Not sure about Udet (he can speak for himself), but for my part Chris I am not trying to cover anything up or hide anything. Wether you call Hitler start WW2 or not thats cool by me. I am talking literally, in my mind Hitler did not declare war on France and England first. They declared it on him first.

Now I fully understand and I want you to understand that I agree with you 100% that Hitler knew (at least highly likely) that invading Poland that France and UK would declare war on him. So yes WW2 was sort of started by Hitler even if he did not declare war first, agree with you.

Its like walking up to Mike Tyson and calling him alittle B*tch, saying his face tattoo looks dumb and his Mom is a wh0re. Well when you wake up and you are staring at a Doctor and Cop in emergency room, they will most likely call you dumb. But you did not start the fight literally, but in a sense you did start.

But either way I am not trying to start a big debate on the subject, Hitler in a sense started WW2 b/c he knew that as a result of his actions it would start a WW. He did it anyways so if you want to say Hitler started WW2 I am cool with that. I am not here to defend a evil crazy nut like Hitler. I am just splitting atoms on how I see who started WW2. I hope we are cool now. Later Mark

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Hitler Invaded Poland, that started WWII, that's end of story as i see it, i realise the roots of the war go much, much further back, but that's the action that directly started the war, the fact that Briton and France then joined in is inconcequential, the war was 3 days old by then...........

 

[Hunter368]

Hitler Invaded Poland, that started WWII, that's end of story as i see it, i realise the roots of the war go much, much further back, but that's the action that directly started the war, the fact that Briton and France then joined in is inconcequential, the war was 3 days old by then...........

I can see your point. I am not saying otherwise. It is like arguing about the difference between assault and aggravated assault.

If a guy (Hitler) calls your wife a wh0re and you (UK and France) punch him. Thats aggravated assault. Now is he guilty of egging you on and deserved to be punched ? yes, he got what he deserved. But who actually threw the first punch and literally started the fist fight? you.

If you don't agree thats fine no problem, we will agree the disagree. Its fine by me.

 

[redcoat]

If a guy (Hitler) calls your wife a wh0re and you (UK and France) punch him. Thats aggravated assault. Now is he guilty of egging you on and deserved to be punched ? yes, he got what he deserved. But who actually threw the first punch and literally started the fist fight? you.

But Hitler wasn't insulting Poland, he was attacking it, killing innocent men, women, and children.
So a closer analogy would be, if a person(Hitler) attacked a friend (Poland) of yours with a knife, stabbing him, and you came to his aid (France and Britain) .

 

[Hellbird]

Amen brother redcoat

 

[Hunter368]

If a guy (Hitler) calls your wife a wh0re and you (UK and France) punch him. Thats aggravated assault. Now is he guilty of egging you on and deserved to be punched ? yes, he got what he deserved. But who actually threw the first punch and literally started the fist fight? you.

But Hitler wasn't insulting Poland, he was attacking it, killing innocent men, women, and children.
So a closer analogy would be, if a person(Hitler) attacked a friend (Poland) of yours with a knife, stabbing him, and you came to his aid (France and Britain) .

Sure I can go with that analogy, same thing we all know what was meant. The point is still the same.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hunter no matter how it is put, Hitler invaded Poland, that started World War 2. France and England are not the aggressors and they did what was expected of them.

Iraq invaded Kuwait, so did the US start Desert Storm because they declared war on Iraq with the Coalition. No they did was right and kicked him out. Just like France and England and the rest of the world did.

 

[Hunter368]

Hunter no matter how it is put, Hitler invaded Poland, that started World War 2. France and England are not the aggressors and they did what was expected of them.

Iraq invaded Kuwait, so did the US start Desert Storm because they declared war on Iraq with the Coalition. No they did was right and kicked him out. Just like France and England and the rest of the world did.

Oh I 100% agree with you again, Hitler b/c of his actions caused WW2 to be started and justly so. In fact UK and France should of declared war even before Poland but that is beside the point. I never said UK and France were the aggressors, all I said was they declared war on Germany which started WW2. I am speaking literally only here, I 100% agree that b/c of Hitler actions it provoked France and UK into action. Let me say it again Hitler caused WW2 to start but UK and France declared war first (which turned into WW2 as me know it). So I am again saying I agree with you 100%.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Okay then.

 

[102first_hussars]

No actually it was Germany that started it first, not Britain or France. Germany invaded Poland not England or France. There is no way to cover it up or hide it.

2nd I will say that the only way France and England could have had a hand in starting WW2 is the Versaille treaty that Germany was placed under.

I agree

Most of Europe actually embraced Woodrew Wilsons eased 14 Point Plan but it was rejected by GB and France.

What angers me most about it is France got off pretty easy at the Congress Of Vienna in 1814 for the Napoleanic Wars but they had to be so goddam persitant about having there way with the Versailles Treaty, and did it ever blow up in there face.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think the funny thing is that the capitulation of France to Germany was signed in the same rail car that the Versaille Treaty was signed in.

 

[Hunter368]

I think the funny thing is that the capitulation of France to Germany was signed in the same rail car that the Versaille Treaty was signed in.

Yeh that was a nice touch by Hitler to rub their noses in it. I am sure he laughed his butt off about that.

 

[schwarzpanzer]

If a guy (Hitler) calls your wife a wh0re and you (UK and France) punch him. Thats aggravated assault. Now is he guilty of egging you on and deserved to be punched ? yes, he got what he deserved. But who actually threw the first punch and literally started the fist fight? you.

Stealing territories off Germany was just asking for it IMHO.

But Hitler wasn't insulting Poland, he was attacking it, killing innocent men, women, and children.
So a closer analogy would be, if a person(Hitler) attacked a friend (Poland) of yours with a knife, stabbing him, and you came to his aid (France and Britain) .

It's like a family of thieves stealing someones car, then them giving them what for. Then you (France, who are jealous because you've had your arse recently kicked by this bloke) asking a mate of yours (who is reluctant - Britain) to help give him a kicking as an excuse.

- Then, and this is the best bit, getting beaten back then joining the bloke against your mate (Vichy).


I'd say going beyond the Sudetenland and Polish Corridor was maybe too far.

What angers me most about it is France got off pretty easy at the Congress Of Vienna in 1814 for the Napoleanic Wars but they had to be so goddam persitant about having there way with the Versailles Treaty, and did it ever blow up in there face.

Damn right hussars!

I think the funny thing is that the capitulation of France to Germany was signed in the same rail car that the Versaille Treaty was signed in.

Heheh! Yeah, then blown sky-high.