Unlikely victors or encounters.

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Rufus123, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. Rufus123

    Rufus123 Member

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    I know these do make a difference in a war but I find some of the odd ball stories of WW2 interesting.

    I understand that a spotting plane once took out a fighter.

    I heard a store of bombers taking down the other sides bomber when the crossed each others paths.

    Anyone know any stories when a plane that should not win does or stories where chance encounters cause strange conflicts?

    I know there is also stories about B-17's becoming a hunter of flying boats.
     
  2. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    There are a number of these examples.

    I think the following are true happy to be corrected of not:-

    First 109 shot down by the RAF was by a Battle
    An Anson (upgunned) shot down at least one 109
    Ju52 shot down a couple of RAF aircraft over Norway
    Arado 196 were used against Whitleys in the Bay of Biscay
    A Lysander shot down a He 111 over France
    Four Ju88's jumped I think 24 P38's and got away with it while the P38s lost I think six either shot down or crashed on landing

    No doubt other people have a lot more examples
     
  3. Kryten

    Kryten Member

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    There's the B17 running battle with the HK8 flying boat in the pacific.
    the Liberator attacking an Fw200 Condor over the Atlantic.
    The Sunderland who allegedly fought a prolonged battle with Ju88c's over Biscay!
     
  4. Rufus123

    Rufus123 Member

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    Do you guys have the stories behind these encounters?
     
  5. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of a Wirraway having a Zero, or Oscar , fly below it, couldn't resist the opportunity, dove down and shot it down.

    I've also heard of a B-24 and a Emily, or Marvis, having a long duel out in the Pacific.

    Also a L-5, or L-3 having a fight with a Storch, and the Storch lost. Maybe the last aircraft brought down in the European theater.
     
  6. Bernhart

    Bernhart <b>2012 Forum Fantasy Football Champion</ b>

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    heard of a zero being taken out by a C 47
     
  7. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    Maj. Rudel shot down 9 enemy fighter aircraft while flying both the Ju-87 and Fw-190F. I suspect at least half the kills happened while flying the Stuka as that's the aircraft he normally flew.
     
  8. Rufus123

    Rufus123 Member

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    C 47 are not armed? How did this happen, and plane to plane impact?
     
  9. Greyman

    Greyman Active Member

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    #9 Greyman, Sep 2, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
    Expanding on the first RAF victory you mentioned:

    Messerschmitt Bf 109D1 of Jagdgruppe 152 piloted by Gefreiter Joseph Scherm was shot down by return fire from Aircraftman John Ernest Summers in a Fairey Battle Mk.I of 103 Squadron.
    Scherm crashed into woods near Bockweiler, Germany at 12:30 pm and was killed, Summers was later awarded the DFM.

    EDIT: guess I should mention the date ... Wednesday, 27 September 1939
     
  10. Greyman

    Greyman Active Member

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    The British often put Vickers 'K' guns in the windows of their Dakotas in South-East Asia. I've read of one diving down to attack a Japanese train with them.
     
  11. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    If you look at a picture of a WW2 era C-47, you'll notice that each side window in the cargo bay has a round hole in it, that round hole is a gun port.
    So if it had armed passengers, it wasn't completely unarmed.
     
  12. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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  13. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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  14. norab

    norab Well-Known Member

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    IIRC there was an incident that ended up with P-38's fighting Russian Yak 9"s but I don't remember the details, maybe someone else does?
     
  15. pattle

    pattle Member

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    The Anson that shot down an Me109, it may have shot down up to three I can't remember. The Fieseler 167 biplane that shot down a Mustang over Yugoslavia. The Gladiator pilot who shot down I think a MC202 with his revolver whilst aiming with one hand from his cockpit.
     
  16. pattern14

    pattern14 Member

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    #16 pattern14, Sep 2, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
    I like the one about the Me 262 pilot Schallmoser, who was nick named the "jet rammer " for his habit of slamming his Me 262 into the target instead of shooting it down. On one occasion I believe he rammed a P38, crippling his own jet, then parachuted to safety, only to land in his parents back garden! Guess his mum was glad to see him. ( Hugh Morgan, "German Jet aces")
     
  17. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

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    This thread is getting pretty deep, time to break out the snorkel.
     
  18. pattern14

    pattern14 Member

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    And the one about the first time the FW Ta 152 became operational, and went to intercept a formation of B17's. They got intercepted themselves by a gruppe of BF 109s' and had to outfly them without being able to do anything about it, as they had no radio contact between them. They never got to the bombers, as they were too busy dicing it out with their own side!
     
  19. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    There were several incidents where P-51s fought Soviet aircraft. Some intentional and some accidental.
     
  20. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    One story that springs to mind is that on the evening of 22 February 1940, the German destroyers Z 1 (Leberecht Maas) and Z 3 (Max Schultz) were sunk by a single He 111 of KG 26. The Royal Navy scored its own own-goal when the submarine HMS Triton torpedoed the sub HMS Oxley a few days after the war was declared!

    it was a Ki-43, but was mistaken for a Zero at the time. The Wirraway in question is at the Australian War Memorial Museum in Canberra. I like the message sent to HQ after the incident by the squadron "Archer has shot down one Zeke, repeat one Zeke. Send six bottles of beer" ! Only six?

    Close, Pattle; on 1 June 1940 Anson I of 500 Sqn flown by Plt Off Peters with LAC Pepper (no word of a lie) in the gun turret shot down a Bf 109 each and a third was damaged.
     
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