cvairwerks
Staff Sergeant
In this case and a few other aircraft, it's due to stuff that goes BOOM......
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Is Greenville line really running???? What i've heard customers have been informed that F16 delivery will be delayed by further 24 months - at least... Ive observed such "successful" relocations couple times during my career. GE moving nacelle production to Alabama - well i don't think they have to build even one, Smiths moving aerostructure components production to China - number rejected parts during first 3 years equals 100%, later it was just 60-75% and this is just two most notable examples. I think most of "industry leaders" underestimate human factor in aerospace industry. Most of airplanes is build manually with very little automation involved and training machinists or assembly workers to have acceptable quality level taking 2-3 years at least. Not mentioning how difficult is to keep your trained workforce.Realistically, about 36-48 months to bring a new facility online from the ground up. Realize that we use about 5 million square feet of building space currently, just for production and production support. Pratt is somewhere around 26-30 months from date of order to delivery on engines. It would take about 18-36 months for delivery on the specialized robotic tooling, set up and calibration. You also have to find, hire and train hundreds of employees to do the actual work.
Consider this...the F-16 line was moved from Fort Worth to Greenville, SC, and it took almost 3 years to get that line completely up and running. As areas in the FW operation completed the last scheduled parts, they were closed out and moved to the new facility and set up. Greenville just mated their first fuselage.
Excellent points! Additionally, there is a shortage of aircraft workers in many parts of the US, and those who have A&P Licenses are quickly snatched up to companies who are willing to pay top dollar for their services. Being retired, it's kind of frustrating watching this because there was a time in my career I was hanging on by my fingertips.Is Greenville line really running???? What i've heard customers have been informed that F16 delivery will be delayed by further 24 months - at least... Ive observed such "successful" relocations couple times during my career. GE moving nacelle production to Alabama - well i don't think they have to build even one, Smiths moving aerostructure components production to China - number rejected parts during first 3 years equals 100%, later it was just 60-75% and this is just two most notable examples. I think most of "industry leaders" underestimate human factor in aerospace industry. Most of airplanes is build manually with very little automation involved and training machinists or assembly workers to have acceptable quality level taking 2-3 years at least. Not mentioning how difficult is to keep your trained workforce.
Mississippi employeeAs a bit of worker info, this is from memory, while microfilming records for a nuclear plant construction in southern Mississippi. Apparently the big bosses up north were complaining about the slow pace. The on site boss said there was absolutely no problem with the employees' work and skill level. The problem was with the various hunting seasons. The absenteeism was what was the cause the delay. The local saying was, "If there's a season, there's a reason." From squirrel to deer, primitive(bow and arrow) , black powder, high power, to duck season, etc. It has to do with the mild climate.
You obviously aren't qualified to be in management. People are interchangeable so you just need to determine the required headcount, then hire whoever is standing out on the street. Yes, there are people who really believe that. Good first level supervision is really important and it can be hard to get qualified people for that who are willing to take abuse from their management.Realistically, about 36-48 months to bring a new facility online from the ground up. Realize that we use about 5 million square feet of building space currently, just for production and production support. Pratt is somewhere around 26-30 months from date of order to delivery on engines. It would take about 18-36 months for delivery on the specialized robotic tooling, set up and calibration. You also have to find, hire and train hundreds of employees to do the actual work.
Consider this...the F-16 line was moved from Fort Worth to Greenville, SC, and it took almost 3 years to get that line completely up and running. As areas in the FW operation completed the last scheduled parts, they were closed out and moved to the new facility and set up. Greenville just mated their first fuselage.
Lockheed opened a feeder plant in Clarksburg, West Virginia in the 1960's. An English engineer who was sent there said that they couldn't believe that he wasn't going deer hunting. People offered to loan him a rifle thinking that he must have left his at home. He also said that they couldn't believe how easy the work was compared to coal mining. After they got some experience, they were beating the standard production hours for assemblies so new standards were set and then they beat them too.As a bit of worker info, this is from memory, while microfilming records for a nuclear plant construction in southern Mississippi. Apparently the big bosses up north were complaining about the slow pace. The on site boss said there was absolutely no problem with the employees' work and skill level. The problem was with the various hunting seasons. The absenteeism was what was the cause the delay. The local saying was, "If there's a season, there's a reason." From squirrel to deer, primitive(bow and arrow) , black powder, high power, to duck season, etc. It has to do with the mild climate.
Have you ever worked in an aircraft production facility or on an actual aircraft production line? And please do not criticize or try to put someone down because of their post, especially if you don't know their background. I'll let you answer my question though, but I will tell you for starters that you are wrong about people "being interchangeable" with regards to working at an aircraft manufacturer. It's quite evident you know little about the skill and pay structure and unions that exist within these companies. So please, enlighten us with your aircraft manufacturing management experience.You obviously aren't qualified to be in management. People are interchangeable so you just need to determine the required headcount, then hire whoever is standing out on the street. Yes, there are people who really believe that. Good first level supervision is really important and it can be hard to get qualified people for that who are willing to take abuse from their management.
Have you ever worked in an aircraft production facility or on an actual aircraft production line? And please do not criticize or try to put someone down because of their post, especially if you don't know their background. I'll let you answer my question though, but I will tell you for starters that you are wrong about people "being interchangeable" with regards to working at an aircraft manufacturer. It's quite evident you know little about the skill and pay structure and unions that exist within these companies. So please, enlighten us with your aircraft manufacturing management experience.
gives away the game.Yes, there are people who really believe that.
I believe the line
gives away the game.
He was being sassy.
I assumed that Bob was being facetious about it.
Dunno why, but that just reminded me of when I was a kid and if you weren't paying attention or something went over your head, the guys (WWII airmen vets) would say:Went right over my head, wooosh…
It was actually a skit on the 1978 TV advert for the then new Fiat Strada which used the strapline "handbuilt by robots". It was called the Ritmo in some markets. Built between 1978 and 1988.This may be too obscure for many on the forum, but back in the 1980s there was a British comedy sketch show called "Not the Nine o'Clock News." It launched the career or Rowan Atkinson and many other British comedians, including Mel Smith who had a brief role in "The Princess Bride."
One famous Not the Nine o'Clock News skit was a dig against British Leyland, the nationalized car manufacturer that was infamous for creating ugly, unreliable vehicles. At the time, some German and Japanese cars were advertised as being built by new-fangled robots, while BL's unionized workforce resisted such efficiencies...hence the sketch:
Somehow it seemed appropriate....
It was actually a skit on the 1978 TV advert for the then new Fiat Strada which used the strapline "handbuilt by robots". It was called the Ritmo in some markets. Built between 1978 and 1988.
i think you are slightly wrong - aerostructures are probably 300 times more complex, powerplant is 600 times more complex, avionics and weapon system are light years ahead in a term of complexity, and then... software part begeensAdditionally, during the 1940s, business did not have to deal with a lot of OSHA and environmental requirements that have to be in place in a factory. You're also looking at aircraft that are probably 100 times more complicated than what was being produced during World War II.