Using original engine types?

[bdefen]

It's always a thrill to see and hear a WW2 military aircraft flying these days. I've wondered whether all of those treasures are actually using the same engine model or configuration when restored to flying status. Might many undergo significant modifications to, or even changes in powerplant when restored to flight? I'm sure many must have modern upgrades to instruments, control, navigation, and avionics. But with most original engines out of production for many years, even since VE/VJ days, it's got to be pretty tough to get parts. I know the unlimited hydroplane racers were gathering up NOS RR Merlin and Griffon engines whenever and wherever they could be found. How about the restorers and operators of WW2 warbirds?

Thanks in advance for any input or discussion.

 

[mjfur]

I guess it depends on how far you want to drill down on "original", but the majority of restored warbirds flying today are using their original type engines.

Sometimes the aircraft may be using a different dash # (or model) of the engine than when they left the factory due to parts availability, complexity, etc.. (No need for a two stage supercharger optimized for power at 24,000 ft when all of the current flights will take place below 10,000 ft.), but there are some aircraft that ARE using the exact same dash #/model engine as delivered.

Here are just a few examples.

F4U's are still using P&W R-2800's.
AT-6's still use the P&W R-1340-AN-1.
P-51's still use the Allison V-1710 or RR V-1650.

Most Sea Furies have been re-engined to use the R-2800, R-3350, R-4360 because off cost and parts availability of the original Centaurus engines.
The reproduction FW 190's use Russian/Chinese or American radials due to parts availability of the BMW 801. Currently this original FW 190 is using an original BMW engine.
FHCAM - Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-5
Bf 109/Hispano Buchon rebuilds are using both RR and DB engines. Currently there are about a dozen DB 601/605 engines in running condition.

 

[Crimea_River]

An interesting tour of Vintage V-12's, probably the leading source of parts and expertise in restoring warbird engines:

 

[Airframes]

Many, if not all Spitfires and Hurricanes flying today, although having a Merlin or Packard Merlin, do not have the original engine they were built with.
Most will have what is available to suit the airframe and prop, rebuilt possibly from more than one original, and possibly with newly manufactured parts.
For example, back in the early 1980's, the BBMF's Lancaster had a mix of RR and Packard Merlins, leading the crew to class it as a B. Mk. 11/2 !!
The Flight also had to scavenge Griffon engines from retiring Shackletons, in order to keep their Spitfire PR19s flying.
However, there is at least one Spitfire still flying (possibly the only one) with it's original, wartime engine, the Mk.VIII owned by Maxi Gainza.

 

[bdefen]

Thanks to all. Vintage V-12 is some kind of facility!

 

[pbehn]

There is always a discussion about whether a Bouchon is a re engine Bf109 with a Merlin or a design itself, some are some aren't.

 

[bdefen]

There was an He-111 here a few years ago in WW2 Luftwaffe livery. It was the Spanish, post-war-built version with the upright V-12 engines like the Bouchon. Was here accompanying B-17 Sentimental Journey. Fun to see. Got to get close during warm-up.

 

[bdefen]

Are restored P-47's generally using the original turbocharger layout? That one looks especially complicated, and hard to source parts for.

The attached photo is from a Summer 2019 air show in Nampa, Idaho. That P-47 had been recently restored after being recovered from a lake in Austria. It had crashed in the last week WW2 in Europe. It has retained the full turbocharging system. I have a video of its startup. 98MB, probably too big to attach here.

 

[pbehn]

There was an He-111 here a few years ago in WW2 Luftwaffe livery. It was the Spanish, post-war-built version with the upright V-12 engines like the Bouchon. Was here accompanying B-17 Sentimental Journey. Fun to see. Got to get close during warm-up.

Many restored aircraft are painted in schemes that they never actually carried during the war, most were not in the war anyway, some "genuine" war veterans are almost 100% new or refurbished parts only the name plate is used from the original, it is a matter of "taste" what people believe, I like to see them flying anyway.

 

[mjfur]

Are restored P-47's generally using the original turbocharger layout? That one looks especially complicated, and hard to source parts for.

The attached photo is from a Summer 2019 air show in Nampa, Idaho. That P-47 had been recently restored after being recovered from a lake in Austria. It had crashed in the last week WW2 in Europe. It has retained the full turbocharging system. I have a video of its startup. 98MB, probably too big to attach here.

There are a few that have the fully functioning turbo-supercharger layout, but most do not. It adds another layer of maintenance and complexity that really isn't required in today's flying. Owners choice though.

 

[bdefen]

There are a few that have the fully functioning turbo-supercharger layout, but most do not. It adds another layer of maintenance and complexity that really isn't required in today's flying. Owners choice though.

Thanks!

 

[maxmwill]

There was an He-111 here a few years ago in WW2 Luftwaffe livery. It was the Spanish, post-war-built version with the upright V-12 engines like the Bouchon. Was here accompanying B-17 Sentimental Journey. Fun to see. Got to get close during warm-up.

That's because it was most likely a CASA 211, which was a license built He111. I think all restored 111s are Spanish in origin.

 

[mjfur]

That's because it was most likely a CASA 211, which was a license built He111. I think all restored 111s are Spanish in origin.

Currently there are zero He 111/CASA 2.111 flying. The CAF's aircraft crashed in 2003. Gone Forever: The Last Flying Heinkel He 111 / CASA 2.111, Crashed in 2003 (Watch)
While there are still a few airframes that could be returned to flight, I don't believe any are actively pursuing that goal.

 

[Graeme]

Currently there are zero He 111/CASA 2.111 flying.

A worthy attempt below.

 

[bdefen]

Currently there are zero He 111/CASA 2.111 flying. The CAF's aircraft crashed in 2003. Gone Forever: The Last Flying Heinkel He 111 / CASA 2.111, Crashed in 2003 (Watch)
While there are still a few airframes that could be returned to flight, I don't believe any are actively pursuing that goal.

That must be the one I saw. It was in mid to late 90s when it was here.