Vallejo Model Colors

[Crimea_River]

How long is 'longer than necessary'? Using Tamiya, I typically wait 1 to 2 days before masking tape is laid down.....

Completely unnecessary in my view. I saw a demonstration by Roy Sutherland at a local model show some years ago. After spraying Tamiya paint, he detacked some Tamiya tape and applied it within a minute of the paint turning flat, which is pretty fast, and proceeded with the next colour over the mask. When that coat turned flat, he remove the mask and there was no issue. The whole process took no more than 5 minutes. I've been applying detacked Tamiya tape over freshly painted surfaces within minutes (no longer than it takes to flush my airbrush and add new paint to the cup) and never had an issue.

The key is to make sure that the surface being sprayed is clean and free of grease and that you apply the paint thin. I always rub the model down with 70% IPA before painting. If you apply a prime coat first, even better.

EDIT: And never use cheap, hardware store tape!

 

[Ralph Haus]

Completely unnecessary in my view. I saw a demonstration by Roy Sutherland at a local model show some years ago. After spraying Tamiya paint, he detacked some Tamiya tape and applied it within a minute of the paint turning flat, which is pretty fast, and proceeded with the next colour over the mask. When that coat turned flat, he remove the mask and there was no issue. The whole process took no more than 5 minutes. I've been applying detacked Tamiya tape over freshly painted surfaces within minutes (no longer than it takes to flush my airbrush and add new paint to the cup) and never had an issue.

The key is to make sure that the surface being sprayed is clean and free of grease and that you apply the paint thin. I always rub the model down with 70% IPA before painting. If you apply a prime coat first, even better.

EDIT: And never use cheap, hardware store tape!

Yes, I always use only Tamiya tapes. I do a wipe with 90% IPA using a Q-tip. Not only cleans any finger oils but will pick up (wash away actually) any dust or sanding bits that have shown up. I'll give the quick tape mask a try on a build that is not as important. After listening to the John Miller podcast I have been enlightened on thinning down the paints.

However, please explain 'de-tacking'? I read that as attaching the tape to a surface, say the cutting pad, and then lifting it off, multiple times? Or are you wiping it with some kind of liquid?

 

[fubar57]

I press large pieces of tape into my palm several times and smaller pieces on my fingers. Some people say this adds skin oils to the tape but I've never seen it as an issue; maybe its the skin cream I use to keep my body looking luxurious

 

[Crimea_River]

Same as Geo. Except for the skin cream part....

 

[fastmongrel]

I put the tape on my jeans leg.

 

[Airframes]

It is possible to pick up grease from hands etc, although each person's skin may react differently, and also possible to attract lint or tiny dust particles from fabrics or cutting mat, when doing this. It may not leave traces on the model surface, but might cause poor adhesion in some areas, especially the tape edge ,if dust or fibers trapped. These may not always be visible - until the paint is applied and the tape removed. leaving an area needing attention..
Experience over the years taught me that the best way to de-tack, for me anyway, is to pull the length of tape between finger and thumb a few time ( average 3 times), exerting light pressure, enough to remove some adhesive, but not enough pressure to cause the tape to snag, kink, tear etc etc.

 

[Crimea_River]

So you've stopped the butt-floss method?

 

[Airframes]

Yeah, the results were s*it !

 

[rochie]

I normally leave the Vallejo colour for about an hour before masking, though i dont know if brushing the paint on like i do makes it more resistant to lifting as ive had few problems.

 

[Ralph Haus]

Older thread but new experience on this subject. I have finally gotten to do a coat or two of Vallejo. I really like the way it applies, right out of the bottle, lower air pressures. No issues with any paint lifting from using Taymia tape when I masked for two colors. BUT, always a but, the Vallejo paint, for me, is very fragile. The slightest bump, from anything, leaves a chip. Admittedly I did not apply a primer first. That may be the problem? But I never have primed with Taymia, and never had these kinds of problems. For this Vallejo paint build I will spray the gloss Taymia coat before needing to do so for decals, this would be out of my normal sequence, to try and protect the Vallejo from further chipping.

I still need to brush in some internal metal colors where the flaps are in the extended position and the interior metal is exposed. I'm now ultra cautious on handling the Vallejo painted surfaces.

 

[fubar57]

Vallejo is a bit more fragile than other acrylics, I think most agree with this. I usually let things sit for a day or so and it seems to help some. Now, after I paint the fuselage regardless of which paint I use, I rest it on these sponge triangles I picked up in the lady section of the drug store.

 

[N4521U]

Holey kow!

I had no idea I had to be a research chemist to paint these lumps of plastic.
I have no idea what I just read in this thread.
Water, Alcohol, X-20A, 10% 20% binders. WTH is going on.
I've been using TS and AS Tamiya cans for large areas and small things like silver and OD and cammo even overall colors. Floor polish for clear Under decals. Tamiya TS clears, gloss, flat and semi for finishing. Never a problem?! Donno why now, dumb luck I am thinking.
For the last PR.XIX build I wanted authentic colors so I ventured into SMS lacquers ready to spray and they worked a treat. Sprayed easier than any I have used, covered in a flash, masked brilliantly, no pealing and I could clear for decals right away!

Just can't spray any of these lacquors over enamel for it will give you the POX!

But that Life Color gave me the sh!ts and will stay away from it!!!!

Just sayin.

 

[Ralph Haus]

Holey kow!

I had no idea I had to be a research chemist to paint these lumps of plastic.
I have no idea what I just read in this thread.
Water, Alcohol, X-20A, 10% 20% binders. WTH is going on.
I've been using TS and AS Tamiya cans for large areas and small things like silver and OD and cammo even overall colors. Floor polish for clear Under decals. Tamiya TS clears, gloss, flat and semi for finishing. Never a problem?! Donno why now, dumb luck I am thinking.
For the last PR.XIX build I wanted authentic colors so I ventured into SMS lacquers ready to spray and they worked a treat. Sprayed easier than any I have used, covered in a flash, masked brilliantly, no pealing and I could clear for decals right away!

Just can't spray any of these lacquors over enamel for it will give you the POX!

But that Life Color gave me the sh!ts and will stay away from it!!!!

Just sayin.

Yeah! I should have just stayed with brushing Revelle from those tiny little expensive bottles. But I chose to explore. Unfortunately some of us, ME, get trapped into the 'what is the best/greatest' trap. Finding new methods is a 'fun' thing in a way (an engineers downfall), and having to put up with the warts. This forum has been a God send for those of us that have not a clue in many areas of model finishing. My skills and finished projects have benefited 1000% from the wisdom and feedback from you guys (may be some gals - if that is allowed now a days?).

 

[fastmongrel]

I know the Vallejo metallic colour is fragile at first. I always leave it at least a week to let it cure before any taping. Surprised you find the normal colours fragile I find it is as tough as any other water based acrylic I have have tried. Used it for over a year and never chipped it.

Do you live somewhere very hot maybe it's drying too fast not having a chance to bond.

Edit: Just reread your post and noticed you didn't use primer. That might be the problem I have never used any water based acrylic without using primer.

 

[Ralph Haus]

I know the Vallejo metallic colour is fragile at first. I always leave it at least a week to let it cure before any taping. Surprised you find the normal colours fragile I find it is as tough as any other water based acrylic I have have tried. Used it for over a year and never chipped it.

Do you live somewhere very hot maybe it's drying too fast not having a chance to bond.

Edit: Just reread your post and noticed you didn't use primer. That might be the problem I have never used any water based acrylic without using primer.

The chips are typically happening on edges. To me that would indicate a brittle material that is not adhered well. As for primer, as I mentioned earlier, I have never used it with Taymia and never had issues like this. I'll be touching up and then applying a coat of either Taymia clear or Pledge?

 

[fastmongrel]

Tamiya acrylic is made with Glycol I think and can be thinned with Isopropyl alcohol. Water based acrylic is more of an emulsion paint and cannot be thinned with Isopropyl alcohol.

They are completely different paints and need different (not better or worse) techniques. I used to use enamel paint it was all that was available and I never cleaned the surface before painting. Then I used Tamiya and got into the habit of wiping the surface with Isopropyl alcohol first. Now I use water based acrylic I wipe the surface with Isopropyl alcohol and then always use primer and try never to touch the surface with bare hands.

 

[fastmongrel]

The primer I used is called Ultimate Primer it's from the UK but is actually a rebottle of Badger Stynylres. It's not cheap but is awesome stuff.

 

[Ralph Haus]

Tamiya acrylic is made with Glycol I think and can be thinned with Isopropyl alcohol. Water based acrylic is more of an emulsion paint and cannot be thinned with Isopropyl alcohol.

They are completely different paints and need different (not better or worse) techniques. I used to use enamel paint it was all that was available and I never cleaned the surface before painting. Then I used Tamiya and got into the habit of wiping the surface with Isopropyl alcohol first. Now I use water based acrylic I wipe the surface with Isopropyl alcohol and then always use primer and try never to touch the surface with bare hands.

The Isopropyl is my standard prep on any finish that I do. I do a hot water hand wash, on my normally dry hands, before every sit down at the bench and have not had issues; wiping with Isopropyl again just before the spray. So, for me the jury is still out on Vallejo. I do like the convenience of the Vallejo dispenser and the no-need to thin. But with a fairly extensive Taymia collection I don't see me doing a 100% switch in the near future. For now Vallejo will be relegated to those builds that I don't have close matches with Taymia. Unfortunately those seem to be the Luftwaffe colors, my favorite builds. I'll just have to pay more attention to how I handle them prior to the clear coats. OR I may (aaargh!) try a primer. Any that you grab first, Vallejo/Taymia/Other for a Vallejo finish coat?

 

[fubar57]

To each his own I guess Ralph. I think I've primered a model twice and washed a model down once prior to painting. The primer was for the sole reason that one aircraft was all yellow and the other was red/orange. Gloss coat is Future and flat coat is on going. I've just bought two different clears, both Liquitex but I haven't sprayed them yet. One thing to watch for with Vallejo is that a lot of their early paints were quite sketchy with colour accuracy but, depending what and where you read, the newer versions are better. How do you tell old paint from new...you don't so it's kind of a crap shoot. I think the colour sets might be the best way to go. Two more acrylic brands you might want to look at, Gunze Sangyo/Mr. Hobby and Mission Models. Gunze Sangyo/Mr. Hobby is hard for me to find in Canada but I may now have a source. This is great paint for spraying and the colour accuracy is also good. I've just finished reading revues about Mission Model paint and they as well look promising and accurate...Internet Modeler Mission Models Acrylic Paints

 

[bdefen]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but whether Tamiya or Vallejo acrylics, I always pour the paint through a paper and mesh cone filter into the airbrush cup.. A local auto-paint store will give me a stack of 50 or so filters when I show up seeking to buy some. I cut off most of the paper part. Between paint loads, I just set the mesh tip of the filter in some water.