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Kevin J
Banned
Large expensive to run targets.
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Large expensive to run targets.It would not have stopped France from falling, but might have been of some use in their war against Siam and later Japan (if they were integrated in the US/GB Navies) or in an ASW role in the Atlantic with the Allies. If nothing else they could have been used to transport aircraft.
I would be more interesting to me if Germany took them over and used them in the Med against the British.
Perisher bait.I would be more interesting to me if Germany took them over and used them in the Med against the British.
Large expensive to run targets.
How so?
I have the best idea. Scrap Bearn and cancel the Dunkerque, Richelieau and Joffre classes. Focus on defending France, not playing with ships. Dramatically decrease naval budget, skip Manigot Line. And build up the army and air force. Army needs a proper tank with three man turret, radio and speed, a proper MBT. Skip the idea of light, medium and heavy tanks, just make an excellent medium tank, an equal to the Panzer IV, and make lots of them. Then focus on doctrine, radio-coordination and wargaming. On the air force, focus on one good fighter, one good close air support (CAS) bomber and one good medium bomber. Stop making so many competing aircraft of the same type. This is France, with limited manpower and industrial power over Germany, so you need to work focused and smarter.
Your requirements are at odds with each other and do not reflect the situation France faced. France had limited manpower and so the Maginot line was a way to economize on manpower.
France also had an overseas empire, mainly just about all of West Africa. giving up the Navy means a high risk of being cut off from the colonies and the supplies/raw materials they provide. France had a rather "old" navy as the demeands of WW I had meant no new major ship construction took place during WW I. The Bearn Herself was laid down in Jan 1914 and the design is older than that. That is the newest French Battleship. No cruisers of any size/design were built during the war.
We have the luxury of knowing how the war played out. Had the Italians been more active with their navy the French could have been cut off from North Africa.
Strange that England could build 3 different single engine fighters (and the Whirlwind) 5 different twin engine bombers and be working on 2 different 4 engine bombers in 1939 and yet we are to believe that the french could not manage more than one of each due to limited manpower?
That's what happened though. France did not have the industrial capacity and especially not the rate of productivity of Britain. Notwithstanding this limitation, France had EIGHT entirely distinct single-seat, single-engine, monoplane fighter programs in development and/or production from 1936 to 1940.Strange that England could build 3 different single engine fighters (and the Whirlwind) 5 different twin engine bombers and be working on 2 different 4 engine bombers in 1939 and yet we are to believe that the french could not manage more than one of each due to limited manpower?
This seems fair. Japan was able to build a first rate, though in ways fatally flawed Kido Butai because they could neglect the army, and neglect its people through a military-led absolute monarchy. Had France not bordered on Germany nor been recovering from the disaster of 1914-18, the French navy of 1940 would have the resources to build and field aircraft carriers.French and Japanese Empires equivalent.
Not to rag on the French too much. Their single seat monoplane fighters were nice looking.
The M.406 was "nice" looking? We have very different tastes then!Not to rag on the French too much. Their single seat monoplane fighters were nice looking.
Well, I can see your point. I was just impressed to see that one survived.The M.406 was "nice" looking? We have very different tastes then!
I think it looks like an inbred, pregnant Hurricane. It is not without its own, specific charms however.
there is no other inline-powered carrier fighter in WW2 that had the wide track undercarriage, folding wings and good looks as the Dewoitine.
That's what happened though. France did not have the industrial capacity and especially not the rate of productivity of Britain. Notwithstanding this limitation, France had EIGHT entirely distinct single-seat, single-engine, monoplane fighter programs in development and/or production from 1936 to 1940.
This doesn't include the French air ministry paying Koolhoven from the Netherlands to design another single-seat, single-engine monoplane fighter, the Koolhoven F.K.58. Specified 1937, first flight 1938, introduced 1940. Add the Koolhoven and France has NINE distinct single-seat, single engine monoplane fighter programs in development or production. When your opponent is facing you with one unified single-seat fighter model this is insanity!
- Bloch MB.150. Specified 1934. First flight 1937. Introduced 1939.
- Morane-Saulnier M.S.406. Specified 1934. (same as the MB.150). First flight 1938. Introduced 1938.
- Arsenal VG-33. Specified 1936. First flight 1939. Introduced 1940.
- Dewoitine D.520. Specified 1936 (same as the VG-33). First flight 1938. Introduced 1940.
- Caudron C.714. Specified 1936 (same as VG-33). First flight 1936. Introduced 1940.
- Bloch MB.700. Specified 1936 (same as VG-33). First flight 1940. Not introduced.
- SNCAO 200. Specified 1937. First flight 1939. Not introduced.
- Potez 230. Specified 1937. First flight 1940. Not introduced.
This is indicative of the wasteful and inefficient military procurement system in France. Whirlwind aside, Britain ran a competition, with the Spitfire and Hurricane winning and went to town producing just these two.
France should have chosen one type for the 1934 Specification and another for the follow-on 1936 Specification, and then focused on making lots of them, like in this Bloch video.
A handful of MS 406s arrived in Indochina, destined for China, but the transfer was blocked by Japan. They lacked the 20mm cannon so operated with just the wing guns. Early in 1942 a patrol was accidentally(?) bounced by a flight of Ki-27s. All the French aircraft were downed.Well, I can see your point. I was just impressed to see that one survived.
There were a few in service in FIC when Japan invaded in Sept. 1940. I wonder how they did against the IJAF Nates and Oscars. Too bad they didn't fly to Malaya to join the Brits.