Vickers Armstrong Castle Bromwich stamps
- Thread starter hnx
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #2
A4K
Brigadier General
Great find mate, and yep, the lanc was indeed the Avro type 683.
Hard to tell which part of the aircraft that was, but will see what I can dig up. (maybe Terry - -Airframes - will know?)
Hard to tell which part of the aircraft that was, but will see what I can dig up. (maybe Terry - -Airframes - will know?)
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Could that just be the aircraft ID plate?
VACB 761 is the Vickers Armstrong Castle Bromwich Inspectors identity stamp.
hnx and A3K are correct in saying that the type designation 683 is indeed the Avro Lancaster; however, Castle Bromwich is where they built Spitfires... and the VACB stamp is widely believed to be solely used on Spitfires.
There is however, one major detail overlooked by most people; and that is as follows:
Avro Type 683 – Lancaster Mk. I
S/N Range: HK535-HK579, HK593-HK628, HK644-HK664, HK679-HK710, HK728-HK773 and HK787-HK80
Part of the first production batch ordered from Vickers-Armstrong Limited, Castle Bromwich, on 30-9-41 (originally Mk. II's, changed to Mk. III's on 13-2-43, and ultimately to Mk. I's on 28-4-43), under Contract No. 1336. HK535-HK579, HK593-HK628, HK644-HK664, HK679-HK710, HK728-HK773 and HK787-HK806. Deliveries commenced 12-43; completed 2-45 (average rate of production, slightly less than 4 aircraft per week).
S/N Range:
PP663-PP695, PP713-PP758 and PP772- PP793-PP806, PP820-PP866 and PP880-PP918.
Part of the second production batch of 200 aircraft built by Vickers-Armstrong Ltd., Castle Bromwich, under Contract No. 1336. PP663-PP695, PP713-PP758 and PP772-PP792. Deliveries commenced 2/45; completed 8/45 (average rate of production, approximately 4 aircraft per week).
Of the original order only 99 aircraft were produced, the final 101 aircraft being cancelled: serial numbers PP793-PP806, PP820-PP866 and PP880-PP918.
(Data from Lancaster-Archive)
Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the plates indeed came from one of these non-Woodford built Avro Lancasters.
hnx and A3K are correct in saying that the type designation 683 is indeed the Avro Lancaster; however, Castle Bromwich is where they built Spitfires... and the VACB stamp is widely believed to be solely used on Spitfires.
There is however, one major detail overlooked by most people; and that is as follows:
Avro Type 683 – Lancaster Mk. I
S/N Range: HK535-HK579, HK593-HK628, HK644-HK664, HK679-HK710, HK728-HK773 and HK787-HK80
Part of the first production batch ordered from Vickers-Armstrong Limited, Castle Bromwich, on 30-9-41 (originally Mk. II's, changed to Mk. III's on 13-2-43, and ultimately to Mk. I's on 28-4-43), under Contract No. 1336. HK535-HK579, HK593-HK628, HK644-HK664, HK679-HK710, HK728-HK773 and HK787-HK806. Deliveries commenced 12-43; completed 2-45 (average rate of production, slightly less than 4 aircraft per week).
S/N Range:
PP663-PP695, PP713-PP758 and PP772- PP793-PP806, PP820-PP866 and PP880-PP918.
Part of the second production batch of 200 aircraft built by Vickers-Armstrong Ltd., Castle Bromwich, under Contract No. 1336. PP663-PP695, PP713-PP758 and PP772-PP792. Deliveries commenced 2/45; completed 8/45 (average rate of production, approximately 4 aircraft per week).
Of the original order only 99 aircraft were produced, the final 101 aircraft being cancelled: serial numbers PP793-PP806, PP820-PP866 and PP880-PP918.
(Data from Lancaster-Archive)
Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the plates indeed came from one of these non-Woodford built Avro Lancasters.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Great info!
- Thread starter
- #7
Thank you for this info.
In the meantime I found out that at the crashplace a Sgt G.P. Kenny on 2-11-1944 was brought in at the military hospital at Ysselsteyn Holland and died. He was part of the crew of the HK633 from 195 sqn on a raid to Hopmberg. Nobody knew were the airplane came down. Now we do and is the crash position known.
Again thanks for the research.
In the meantime I found out that at the crashplace a Sgt G.P. Kenny on 2-11-1944 was brought in at the military hospital at Ysselsteyn Holland and died. He was part of the crew of the HK633 from 195 sqn on a raid to Hopmberg. Nobody knew were the airplane came down. Now we do and is the crash position known.
Again thanks for the research.
A4K
Brigadier General
Great info guys, and great to know the crash site has been identified. Any plans to excavate the site? (Did the other crew members survive?)
- Thread starter
- #9
The aircraft remains were removed in the war and of course lots of small stuff remains, like the type plate found.
Except the rear gunner (dead) and the pilot (wounded) everybody got out and were made POW.
The strange thing is nowadays the crash location is half in and half out of a German military cemetery in Holland were there nare 32.000 graves. . But inside the fence ther are about 20 yards of trees before the graves start and thats were the remains are.
Except the rear gunner (dead) and the pilot (wounded) everybody got out and were made POW.
The strange thing is nowadays the crash location is half in and half out of a German military cemetery in Holland were there nare 32.000 graves. . But inside the fence ther are about 20 yards of trees before the graves start and thats were the remains are.
A4K
Brigadier General
Thanks for that mate. I don't think it would be unappropriate to maybe display one or two pieces on site as a living memorial...
MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
Great find, definitely a major component serial plate
Regarding your question "from what part is that." If someone knows any of the current Lancaster ground crew they should be able to identify it.
I say this because Bristol and many other manufacturers use a simple code to identify each major assembly - FF for front fuselage, WCC for wing centre section, WCCPF for wing CC left flap etc
As such I would expect WBCB?FC to represent the major assy but whether WB indicates wing box or wheel bay or what I do not know.
My Lancaster experience is limited to KB976 in the 60's several years before it was converted to a water bomber and I did not need to know the major assy part serial system for that.
Regarding your question "from what part is that." If someone knows any of the current Lancaster ground crew they should be able to identify it.
I say this because Bristol and many other manufacturers use a simple code to identify each major assembly - FF for front fuselage, WCC for wing centre section, WCCPF for wing CC left flap etc
As such I would expect WBCB?FC to represent the major assy but whether WB indicates wing box or wheel bay or what I do not know.
My Lancaster experience is limited to KB976 in the 60's several years before it was converted to a water bomber and I did not need to know the major assy part serial system for that.
