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Pardon my ignorance, but which book is that? I'm still trying to connect board names to author names.
Bill Marshall - the particular book is "P-51B Mustang: North American's Bastard Stepchild that saved the 8th AF" James William Marshall and Lowell Ford Osprey 2020Pardon my ignorance, but which book is that? I'm still trying to connect board names to author names.
Bill Marshall - the particular book is "P-51B Mustang: North American's Bastard Stepchild that saved the 8th AF" James William Marshall and Lowell Ford Osprey 2020
I wouldn't go so far as to say the Tempest would fly rings around the Mustang. They were both excellent fighters in my view and certainly the Mustang was better for long range escort. See ADFU Tactical Trials - Tempest V:Was the P-51 the best ESCORT fighter of WWII?
It wasn't the 'best' fighter, ( A Tempest would fly rings around it), but it was the best generalist - and you could build a P-51 in the same time it took to build a Spitfire with the same engine.
Best escort for who?probably the P-51B/C/D/K were the best escort, but the trouble that left uncovered 3 years and 5 months, so it's sure the best escort from december '43, but before?
It wasnt there when it was needed because people said a long range escort couldnt be made and wasnt needed anyway. The P-51 started to go in service in late 1943, the huge numbers werent there until mid 1944, USA bombing missions started in 1942 with Spitfires, then P-47s then P-38s and P-51s.Was the P-51 the best ESCORT fighter of WWII?
ABSOLUTELY!
It was there when it was needed, it was fast enough, it went far enough, it was manouverable enough, it was easy enough to fly.
It wasn't the 'best' fighter, ( A Tempest would fly rings around it), but it was the best generalist - and you could build a P-51 in the same time it took to build a Spitfire with the same engine.
Spitfire? - didn't go far enough
P-47? - harder to fly
P-38? - Wasn't as manoeuvrable
'You win a war being being the firstest with the mostest'
And the P-51 was there when needed in huge numbers giving USAAF pilots a hotrod ride as good or better than the enemies over his homeland, and they tore the heart out of the Luftwaffe.
It wasnt there when it was needed because people said a long range escort couldnt be made and wasnt needed anyway. The P-51 started to go in service in late 1943, the huge numbers werent there until mid 1944, USA bombing missions started in 1942 with Spitfires, then P-47s then P-38s and P-51s.
Also this is true, not all need same escort, but a a fighter that can gain air superiority in enemy airspace, like the P-51, is sure the plus in the escort field.Best escort for who?
Or when?
If we agree the Zero was a good early war escort the Zero was only good from the end of 1940 to the end of 1942 (if then) so it leaves a a lot of the war uncovered.
The P-38 might be the best from late 1942 to the end of 1943. So it's time span wasn't that great.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here, I'm more impressed with the P-51H having a CR only 30 miles short of the P-47N... on less than half the fuel.Regarding combat radius, there are also the Standard Aircraft Characteristics publications by the USAF.
The P-47N, carrying 997 gallons of fuel, had a basic combat radius of 800 nautical miles (920 statute miles).
The P-51H, carrying 480 gallons of fuel, had a basic combat radius of 770 nautical miles (886 statute miles).
The parameters were:
(a) Start engine, warm-up, take-off at sea level; 10 minutes at normal power.
(b) Climb to 25,000 feet at normal power.
(c) Cruise out with long range operation at 25,000 feet (external tanks are dropped when empty).
(d) Combat at 25,000 feet for 5 minutes with maximum power (fluid injection) and 15 minutes with maximum power (dry).*
(e) Cruise back with long range operation at 25,000 feet.
(f) Reserve: 5% of total useable fuel at take-off.
* 5 minutes of maximum power and 15 minutes of military power for the P-47N
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here, I'm more impressed with the P-51H having a CR only 30 miles short of the P-47N... on less than half the fuel.
They were specially prepared aircraft modified for that mission plus the pilots were advised by Charles Lindbergh on how to get the best economy possible. The P51 is the best VLR plane used in WW2
I wouldn't go so far as to say the Tempest would fly rings around the Mustang. They were both excellent fighters in my view and certainly the Mustang was better for long range escort. See ADFU Tactical Trials - Tempest V:
COMPARISON WITH MUSTANG III
Range and Endurance
25. By comparison the Tempest without nose tank or long-range tanks, has no range. When the extra fuel is available it should have a little more than half that of the Mustang III fitted with two 62.5 gallon long-range tanks, but without the extra 71 gallon body tank.
Maximum Speed
26. The Tempest V is 15-20 mph faster up to 15,000 ft., there is then no choice to 24,000 ft, when the Mustang rapidly pulls ahead, being about 30 mph faster at 30,000 ft.
Climbs
27. These compare directly with the results of the speed tests. At similar performance height the Tempest has a better zoom climb.
Turning Circle
28. The Tempest is not quite as good as the Mustang III.
Rate of Roll
29. The Tempest is not so good. This attribute may be improved upon later aircraft with re-designed ailerons.
Conclusions
30. The Mustang III has superior range of action and general performance above 24,000 ft. Conclusions should not be drawn below this height, but the Tempest has a much better rate of climb and speed below 10,000 feet.
It wasnt there when it was needed because people said a long range escort couldnt be made and wasnt needed anyway. The P-51 started to go in service in late 1943, the huge numbers werent there until mid 1944, USA bombing missions started in 1942 with Spitfires, then P-47s then P-38s and P-51s.
US bombing missions in Europe started in 1942 escorted by Spitfires.Which must have come as a big surprise to the residents of Berlin who saw their city being bombed by huge numbers of USSAF bombers escorted by fighters in Feb/March 1944
I suspect it came as an even big shock to the very badly mauled Luftwaffe who realised their war was now lost - Nothing says you've lost like enemy fighters roaming at will over your country.
Entirely too glib. you have to look at the power available charts as function of altitude."the Messerschmitt Me 262's most dangerous opponent was the British Hawker Tempest; extremely fast, highly-maneuverable and heavily armed"
Hubert Lange
Although on paper the P-51D was slightly faster than the Tempest, in its element, the Tempest was faster, could out roll it with ease, (It could out roll pretty much anything one it got its spring tab ailerons) had a vastly higher rate of climb, and thanks to its higher P/W ratio, had very impressive acceleration.
There is at least one contemporaneous account of an irritated Tempest pilot turning on a P-51 that's bounced him and chasing it all over the sky to teach the pilot a lesson.