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Doh. The Bf 109s in the BoB carried two cannons as a rule, unlike the Spitfires.
That's interesting. As a lad first living in Britain and then growing up in the 1970s in Canada I was an avid reader of Battle and Warlord the two things drilled into my head were Spitfires were better than Hurricanes and the Me 109 (they never called it the Bf) had that 30mm cannon in the nose.Not as a rule.
RR may have seen (my opinion here) the Griffon as a lower cost, lower risk engine engine to get them the same power as the Vulture once they had the better fuel and been willing to dump the Vulture.
How about some engines from Power Jet?
That's interesting. As a lad first living in Britain and then growing up in the 1970s in Canada I was an avid reader of Battle and Warlord the two things drilled into my head were Spitfires were better than Hurricanes and the Me 109 (they never called it the Bf) had that 30mm cannon in the nose.
Somebody mentioned a fairly low dive speed limitation for the Whirlwind of under 400 mph, is that correct? Do we know what the reason is?
The F-series didn't really make it in time for the BoB.
No Bf 109 before the F series had a motorkanone (firing through the spinner). The two principle variants had an MG 151 15mm cannon (F-2) and an MG 151/20 20mm cannon (F-4). Both retained the two cowl mounted MG 17s of earlier versions. It's armament was thus two rifle calibre machine guns and one cannon, about which not everyone who flew it was thrilled.
One other way to assess Whirlwind vis a vis the Battle of Britain* (or just afterward) is to compare it to the Me 110.
Me 110 wasn't ideal, but the Luftwaffe certainly got some use out of it. And yet the Whirlwind was considerably better in almost every measurable category:
Comparing Me 110C-1: (per Wikipedia)
The only advantage Me 110 seems to have is in Wing Loading (around 33-35 lb / sq ft vs. closer to 40 for the Whirlwind)
- Top speed - Whirlwind 360 mph vs 336 for Me 110 **
- Range - Whirlwind 800 miles vs. ~520 miles for Me 110
- Climb - Whirlwind ~3,000 fpm vs. 2,200 for Me 110
- Dive - (probably) Whirlwind
- Armament - Whirlwind - 4 x 20mm vs. 2 x 20mm with 4 x 7.92 mm
- Power-mass - Whirlwind (roughly .17 for Whirlwind, .14 for Bf 110)
- Fighter bomber - Whirlwind (Me 110 can carry more bombs but Whirlwind can basically function as a dive bomber making it much more accurate)
Is there any data for roll rate for the Whirlwind? Turning circle?
I would assume Whirlwind would have a better roll since it's smaller and has a shorter wingspan, but one generally shouldn't assume with these things...
* I know Whirlwind wasn't used in the BoB but had more been produced it could have been.
** later variants of Me 110 were faster but Whirlwind could have been improved as well obviously.
By the time F series arrived in the Western Desert the E were quickly relegated to Jabo / fighter-bomber duties. Most pilots there seemed to far prefer the F to the E, and quite a few preferred it to the later G series as well.
My understanding of combat between a Thunderbolt and Bf 109G-6 is that the later outperformed the former if clean, but with underwing guns the G-6 was outperformed by the Thunderbolt.Yes but I think many Luftwaffe fighter pilots preferred the Franz to fight, not just to fly. Some didn't to be sure, but many did and said so both at the time and in post-war interviews. If armament was all that mattered they'd be using the Bf 110 right? The value of a fighter in WW2 was a balance of performance, maneuverability, armament, toughness (structurally and things like armor, fuel tank protection) and versatility. Armament wasn't much use if you couldn't get into a 'shooting solution', conversely a lighter armament could be deadly (especially if it included at least one good cannon) if you had enough of a performance / maneuverability advantage that you could own the other aircraft and get right where you needed to be.
I believe the lightly armed, streamlined interceptor / fighter was probably the role to which the 109 was best suited. The need to more heavily arm the aircraft to shoot down B-17s and Il-2s basically led to overloading the airframe and limiting it's agility.
Speaking of protection did Whirlwind have protected fuel tanks and pilot armor?