What if? East Vs West 1945

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The USSR aided the Weimar Republic not Nazi Germany.

Right away we get into Katyn and the typical knee-jerk equalization of Hitler's death camps with Stalin's crimes, which is another way of stating the extreme right's wish for an alliance with Nazi Germany instead of the Stalin's USSR.

If the West hadn't caved in to Hitler at Munich, and if Poland would have formed an alliance with the USSR instead of helping itself to parts of Czechoslovakia...if, if , if...but the end result is that Stalin gave up on the Alliance which was to have prevented Munich and the destruction of Czechoslovakia by the Nazis, and became neutral and helped himself to parts of Poland...what goes around comes around.
 
The USSR was never in an alliance with Nazi Germany any more than Sweden or Switzerland was, both of which traded heavily with Nazi Germany, and the Swedes even allowed German troops to pass through Sweden.

Well, the Allied defeat in 1940 was entirely their fault. BTW, they even planned even to attack the Soviet Union do deny supplies to Hitler. However, the Soviet Union was also enterily blammed for what happaned in it's domains.
 
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But they DID invade Poland...doesn't matter if it was 17 days after the Germans or if it was on Groundhog Day, they invaded Poland...period. No matter how hard revisionism spins it, the nation was invaded regardless of when or for whatever reason.

The USSR's occupation of these territories in no way hastened Poland's demise...
You can't be serious....

And The Soviet Union was interring American crews and thier aircraft in both the PTO and the ETO. The crews may have been released, but the American aircraft were kept. And last time I checked, both sides of the Soviet Union were an Ally of the United States. This alliance (I am assuming) would cover the entire country of the U.S.S.R. And if I remember correctly, the eastern half of the U.S.S.R. was more than happy to recieve thier supplies and equipment from the United States, so I am pretty sure that the eastern half of the Soviet Union was attached to the western half...
 
I don't know how such war could have developed, but what I have sure is that the political war is already happening here, and is being fierce. LOL
 

And if Hitler had been granted his Art Institute scholarship in Vienna the whole mess would have been avoided.
 
I don't want to discuss moral here RCAFson, but the Soviet agressions in Poland, Finland, Estonia and Latvia are hardly what one can expect from a "neutral".
 

Also Do not discount the zeal that former Wermacht and LW veterans may have joined the West.
 
Something about Dresden:


Bombing of Dresden in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

the long and the short is...i have never seen someone with an open mind and who is willing to explore all options and proposals have a problem discussing any issue.
 
Allied aircrews who were carrying out operations against Japan were interred if they landed in the USSR since the USSR was neutral in that war until August 9 1945, but they were quietly released prior to the Soviet entry into the war against Japan.

The aircraft - particularly the B-29 - were not released, and became the USSR first strategic bomber as an almost perfect copy, bolt for bolt.
 
The Allied air forces don't need to bomb the Soviet factories IF they can keep the Soviet supplies from reaching their armies.

A division can use over 100 tons of supplies per day when not engaged in heavy combat or long distance moves.

How many thousands of tons per day do the Soviets need to move into Eastern Europe to keep their Forces supplied?

How much chance do they have of blocking the Western Allies supply lines?
 
And let's not forgot of something: Japan was demolished by mid-1945. The Allies could have bring relevant reinforcements from the Pacific to be based in the UK. Due to the UK's infraestructure, not to mention the aircraft carriers, the Allies would be able to employ better their forces from Asia in Europe than the Soviets and the logistical problems they would have to support theirs if they bring them.

Ah, and what aircraft contingent the Allies had in Africa by 1945? I'm still thinking the Caucasus oil fields could have been targeted...
 
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After the surrender of Japan the Ostsee (East Sea) could function as one very large aircraft carrier directly at/in the flank of the Red Army.

The KM of 1944/45 could hold the East Sea as their very own Sea because they could supply the Heeresgruppe Nord (Kurlandarmee) till 08.05.1945, they could evacuate thousands of civilian and Prinz Eugen, Admiral Scheer and Lützow could operate with their destroyers totaly undamaged the whole years 1944 and 1945 as heavy Artillerie support for the Wehrmacht.

The VVS was so frustrated of this three ships at the East Sea (1944/45) that they were crying for help from the RAF and the USAF, because no single attack of the VVS achieved any damage or could retreat this Ships from their heavy Artillerie support.
Quite the contrary all three Ships could achieve heavy damage with their improved AA over the VVS and shot down numerous a/c's.

As we all know the german AA was not the best, at 1944/45 the improved german AA was much better then bevor but personaly I would rate it second (equal to the RN) but not as good as US Navy AA.

So to my opinion such a attack through the East Sea at the flank of the Red Army would take the VVS under enormous pressure, because the VVS has no or very little experience in fighting ships and the VVS couldn't do anything against the three german ships, what will happen if 100 RN and USN aircraft carrier, battleships, cruisers and destroyer will enter the East Sea?
 
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Perhaps the Japanese surrender would be a problem in this scenario. Despite the nukes, they were prepared to resist an invasion, and the Allies obviously would be unable to launch an invasion of Japan in this scenario. The Soviet entering in the war against Japan was a profound shock to the Japanese. The planners of Unthinkable considerated the possibility that the Japanese might become allies of the Soviets. The Japanese probably would have accepted some conditional surrender from the Allies, since it preserved the power of the Emperor. However, had the Allies insisted in unconditional surrender, the Japanese would try to save their skin, and that could have lead to an alliance with the Russians.

Had the Russians were the agressors, I think that launching nuclear attacks in Japan, to "punish" it, and giving a conditional surrender proposal to the Japanese, would be better for the Allies, specially if the transfer of forces from Asia indicated that it would be realistic to push the Russians back to their frontiers. Imperial Japan would still exists, but had it agree to leave China and reduce it's arsenal, for America and Britain it would be better than have Stalin ruling Eastern Europe (Japan also would be a problem for Stalin).
 
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This, IMO is The key battlefront issue - not to metion that there is a lot of rugged terrain in Czechoslovakia, Southern Germany and Austria featuring natural choke points. All rail facilities and marshalling yards, bridges and canals subject to day/night intrusion. Naval Forces in the Baltic and the Eastern Med should provide air cover on the flanks... etc, etc. Oil in the Ukraine should be the primary strategic target.

The wild card is that the average grunt on Both sides will be very disheartened at the thought of another war.
 
Another consideration is the fact that the U.S. was still on a wartime footing, still producing equipment and training soldiers, sailors and pilots since the war was far from over in the PTO and they were estimating that they would be on Japan soil "hopefully" by early 1946. Remember, no one at that time (except for a very few people) knew about the A-bomb so the plans were "game-on" for a serious slugfest.

So in the closing months of the war in the ETO, U.S. capacity was still at an all-time high. With an outbreak of hostilities with the U.S.S.R., American supplies, equipment and manpower just keeps flowing into Western Europe fresh from the U.S. and with the threat of German warships removed from the convoy lanes, I'm sure the flow would increase, too.
 
US war production actually peaked in either very late 1943 or mid-1944 - depending on how you measure it - and declined slowly until about January 1945, after which the production decline accelerated rapidly.



There were about 2 million less workers involved in direct contribution to the war effort at the by about March 1945 than there were at the beginning of 1944.
 

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