What if, Goering was killed before WW2

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by bf109_user, Nov 21, 2009.

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  1. bf109_user

    bf109_user New Member

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    good day everyone,

    if i assume correctly goering has major influence in the development of luftwaffe start from the scratch before ww2,
    i really like to know, what if goering was killed (or just died any other way) before the ww2 start (and i assume as 1 september 1939 when the blitzkrieg against poland was start)
    you can pick any date/year when herr generalfeldmarschal goering die, and what would happen to luftwaffe and the ww2 as general after that

    thanx,
    pardon for my english, just need re-take english 101 class :oops:
     
  2. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    Galand could have been made general of the air forces and the war in Britain would have been much different!
     
  3. fastmongrel

    fastmongrel Well-Known Member

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    Wasnt Galland a bit young to be put in charge before the war. I am thinking Milch, Wever, Jeschonek or Udet would have been the favourites for the job. I suppose it would be dependant on when Goering dies and who is in favour at that time.
     
  4. merlin

    merlin Member

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    I agree Galland would have been too young, and too inexperienced.

    Wever, died earlier - car accident I think, - a capable leader.

    Jeschonek - over promoted as it was, doubt if could have handled the 'strain' of being leader, as later events showed.

    Udet - bad enough, at doing what he was supposed to. His only legacy is the 'Stuka'.

    Milch would have been a better choice IMO for Germany, had the vision, and the organisational ability.

    The only other, would be someone like Kesselring.
     
  5. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    With Milch at helm LW would be performing better, yet even he showed personal bias many times.
    The rest from previous post would've manage nothing better then Goering did.
     
  6. Civettone

    Civettone Active Member

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    The main question would be how powerful would this leader be? Would he be subject to Hitler as Goering was? Would his only interest be to please the Fuehrer ??


    Kris
     
  7. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    Goerrings' experience as a fighter pilot from the Great War did not do anybody any good in the Luftwaffe. A general that would listen to the JG Stab's would have been better for Germany. Even if that General wasn't an experienced pilot.
     
  8. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    #8 GrauGeist, Nov 22, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2009
    Goering's WWI reputation was on the borderline of being lackluster, but his rise to power was solely on Hitler's favor.

    Udet wouldn't be the best choice, because he was too entrenched in the "old school" of thought, regarding aircraft.

    My choice would be Richthofen, even though he was against the Stuka.
     
  9. bf109_user

    bf109_user New Member

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    how about werner molder?
    appointed as head of the luftwaffe after return as hero of the condor legion?
    how was his relationship with hitler?
     
  10. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    A great pilot or even a great squadron leader does not necessarily make a great Marshal.
     
  11. Civettone

    Civettone Active Member

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    A strong person who still listens to his staff, that's what you would need. That's all you need to have one which is much better than Goering. The most qualified would be Milch, the guy in my avatar. But several were good enough.


    Kris
     
  12. Nikademus

    Nikademus Member

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    It might have been bad. Goering's influence/role in Luftwaffe development was actually positive in that he ensured that the Luftwaffe was appropriated massive amounts of funding for development and rearmament. Per author James Corum, he interfered very little in the Luftwaffe's technical development or refinement of it's air doctrine. He was not a strategist or a technical person and (at the time at least), knew it and allowed the men who were to have their head to create "his" Luftwaffe while he supported from the background. As Luftwaffe leader though after the start of WWII....aiee.

    perhaps a more interesting What if would be, what if Hans Jeschonnek had not become chief of staff in 39? According to Corum, his influence in the Luftwaffe was uniformly a negative one.
     
  13. Civettone

    Civettone Active Member

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    Can you elaborate a bit on Jesschonnek? I just know the guy from that one time when he actually turned down an offer for more fighters ...back in 1942? What can I do with so many fighters? He must be the first general to turn down an offer for more weapons. That's a guy who would litterally have gone on his knees to please his Fuhrer ...


    Kris
     
  14. krieghund

    krieghund Member

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    General Wever (an advocate of strategic bombing) died in an airplane accident. He had just learned to fly and was on his was to a friends funeral and decided to fly there. He forgot to remove his aileron locks (or he was taken out as he opposed medium bomber programs)
     
  15. Nikademus

    Nikademus Member

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    Hi,

    The author i mentioned cited two particular items of note:

    1) He was seduced/convinced by Udet of the primacy of the dive bomber, to such a point that it hindered the development both of current level bomber designs on the drawing board (delaying their release due to requirements that they be able to "dive bomb") as well as future bomber designs that might have better served the Luftwaffe in the near future.

    2) He overemphasized the importance of the Blitzkreig concept to such a point that he sacrficed the maintenance of reserves in both pilots and material. Nothing was held back...even training units might be thrown in to a campaign to provide a short term maximum effect.

    He was not soley responsible for either factor as the author notes but shares a large part of the blame.
     
  16. Civettone

    Civettone Active Member

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    That second part is immensily important for me and my research. Great !


    Kris
     
  17. rank amateur

    rank amateur Member

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    #17 rank amateur, Dec 12, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
    Excuse me gentleman, but I think the impact of Görings death in say 1939 would be immense. At that point he was a lot more than 'just' Reichsmarshall, he was also Hitlers' stellvertreter, the man to come to power if Hitler would become unavailable. With Göring death, there would have been a political void that would have shifted the whole political and military area in Germany. I'm not sure that in this void Poland would have been invaded in the autumn of '39.

    An other thing is that, during the whole of the war there was hardly anybody (Galand being the exception) that could stand up to Hitler in a face to face confrontation. Certainly not Milch who did have influence on Hitler but also had some Jewish ancesters. A fact alone enough to dismiss him from power.
     
  18. rank amateur

    rank amateur Member

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    Should have used my spellingchecker';)
     
  19. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there was a good chance that Rudolph Hess would have succeeded Goering if something happened to him before Hess flew to England in 1941...
     
  20. krieghund

    krieghund Member

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    #20 krieghund, Dec 21, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
    The question is what would have been the effect if Wever had lived and that idiot (thanks for idiots) Udet would have topped himself earlier. No fricking dive bomber requirement for the He-177!!! The Luftwaffe would have developed its long range strategic bomber force The He-177 would have had the engineering resources applied to it to rectify its engine problems much the same way the B-29 solved theirs (Their are many parallels between the two except the USAAF put the resources towards the B-29 and since there were no LR bomber advocates left in the LW the outcome is history)

    (The R-3350 story is an interesting read in the new B-29 book---I'll add the title when I get home)

    "Boeing B-29 Superfortress The Ultimate Look: From Drawing Board to VJ Day"
     
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