What if the Germans had radar proximity fused AA shells?

wiking85 · Feb 18, 2024

Thumpalumpacus said:
You don't think PFs are miniaturized radars?

They are, the key is mini-tubes that can handle the G-forces. It is about specific components, what else does that benefit with WW2 tech?

Thumpalumpacus · Feb 18, 2024

wiking85 said:
They are, the key is mini-tubes that can handle the G-forces. It is about specific components, what else does that benefit with WW2 tech?

<sigh> Reread my original point, please.

wiking85 · Feb 18, 2024

Thumpalumpacus said:
<sigh> Reread my original point, please.

I did and my question still stands. Microtubes don't really have knock on effects for overall radar miniaturization because microtubes are less overall powerful than normal sized vacuum power tubes. It is only useful for VT fuses or spy devices. Cavity magnetrons are what allow for powerful radar AND overall miniaturization; perhaps also Traveling Wave Tubes. Later of course there would be transistors but they aren't less powerful and in fact more energy efficient, though even they don't fully replace power vacuum tubes.

Thumpalumpacus · Feb 18, 2024

wiking85 said:
I did and my question still stands. Microtubes don't really have knock on effects for overall radar miniaturization because microtubes are less overall powerful than normal sized vacuum power tubes. It is only useful for VT fuses or spy devices. Cavity magnetrons are what allow for powerful radar AND overall miniaturization; perhaps also Traveling Wave Tubes. Later of course there would be transistors but they aren't less powerful and in fact more energy efficient, though even they don't fully replace power vacuum tubes.

They also imply smaller, lighter radio sets for airplanes. Those same micro-tubes also imply greater possibilities for guidance systems. You should also be aware that smaller tubes, with lesser current draw, also imply smaller support equipment such as batteries.

Transistors are irrelevant to this discussion as they are post-war.

I prefer tubes for my guitar amps over transistors, for their warmer tones. I prefer 6L6s for power tubes and 12AY7s for preamps, and 12AX7s for phase inverters. I have owned amps with smaller power tubes such as 6V6s and EL-84s. I know first-hand that smaller tubes result in smaller and lighter equipment. The potential impact of that on airplanes should be clear.

Shortround6 · Feb 18, 2024

The thing is that the Proximity fuse needs to work over about a 20-70ft distance, not the 18,000ft or greater ranges that the Airborne interceptor radar needed.
Airborne radar has to work over a much longer range and used a lot of power, the British NK IV was up to 10kw, some airborne radars in WW II got up to 70kw (or more)
None of them had to stand up to the shock of firing or the rotational speeds.
I can't find the power of the transmitter but it can't have been much.
see Naval Gazing Main/The Proximity Fuze Part 1

for some simple circuit diagrams.

wiking85 · Feb 18, 2024

Thumpalumpacus said:
They also imply smaller, lighter radio sets for airplanes. Those same micro-tubes also imply greater possibilities for guidance systems. You should also be aware that smaller tubes, with lesser current draw, also imply smaller support equipment such as batteries.

Transistors are irrelevant to this discussion as they are post-war.

I prefer tubes for my guitar amps over transistors, for their warmer tones. I prefer 6L6s for power tubes and 12AY7s for preamps, and 12AX7s for phase inverters. I have owned amps with smaller power tubes such as 66s and EL-84s. I know first-hand that smaller tubes result in smaller and lighter equipment. The potential impact of that on airplanes should be clear.

Only if the microtubes could generate similar levels of power output as regular sized ones. Otherwise the loss in capability removes their utility.
I only mentioned transistors as a counterpoint to the utility of reduced size; they achieve it only because of unique properties that microtubes do not possess.

Musical instruments aren't generating power outputs the way radio transmitters and radar are, which had to be effective for kilometers if not tens or even hundreds of KM.

Thumpalumpacus · Feb 19, 2024

wiking85 said:
Musical instruments aren't generating power outputs the way radio transmitters and radar are, which had to be effective for kilometers if not tens or even hundreds of KM.

Is that what you think? Some LW radios pushed as little as 7 watts, while others pushed 100. My current amp pushes 50 watts RMS, while I've owned two tube amps which output 100w. There's an old Marshall, the Major, that puts out 200w.

So no, this claim is factually incorrect, in that regard.

I'm desperately fighting the urge to post some gear porn.

SaparotRob · Feb 19, 2024

Thumpalumpacus said:
Is that what you think? Some LW radios pushed as little as 7 watts, while others pushed 100. My current amp pushes 50 watts RMS, while I've owned two tube amps which output 100w. There's an old Marshall, the Major, that puts out 200w.

So no, this claim is factually incorrect, in that regard.

I'm desperately fighting the urge to post some gear porn.

Follow your muse.

Greyman · Feb 19, 2024

Thumpalumpacus said:
I think his point was that if you've gotten to miniaturize radar to that extent, you've probably advanced your radar tech in other fields as well, with the knock-on effects that implies.

To this point, in the conclusions of Army Operational Research Group - Report No. 259 - Technical Review of AA Defences Against Flying Bombs;

The results achieved could never have been obtained without T98 fuzes. But what is important, and what is inclined to be overlooked, is that the T98 fuze could not have achieved what it did without the accuracy in prediction provided by the SCR 584 and the No 10 Predictor. It was the combination of SCR 584, No 10 Predictor and T98 Fuze that did the trick.

Emphasis in original.

Thumpalumpacus · Feb 20, 2024

SaparotRob said:
Follow your muse.

Site's /img stuff is really wonky, but top to bottom:

Peavey VK212 100w behind my SG, 71 Fender Bassman 100w behind my Les Paul, and then Peavey 50w amp/speaker combo mounted in two cabinets I built myself. The one on the bottom is my current rig, alongside a 6w VHT Spec 6 with a different 12" speaker that isn't pictured:

PAT303 · Feb 20, 2024

The shrapnel effect of a proximity fused guitar on a B17 would be interesting lol

z42 · Feb 20, 2024

PAT303 said:
The shrapnel effect of a proximity fused guitar on a B17 would be interesting lol

The Germans had their Schräge Musik, but mount loudspeakers on those bombers playing Motörhead, and the Germans would have ran away screaming in terror.

Snautzer01 · Feb 23, 2024

z42 said:
those bombers playing Motörhead, and the Germans would have ran away screaming in terror.

Yeah i understand that.. looking at this gunner.

What if the Germans had radar proximity fused AA shells?

More options

wiking85

Staff Sergeant

Thumpalumpacus

Major

wiking85

Staff Sergeant

Thumpalumpacus

Major

Shortround6

Major General

wiking85

Staff Sergeant

Thumpalumpacus

Major

SaparotRob

Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII

Greyman

Tech Sergeant

Thumpalumpacus

Major

PAT303

Tech Sergeant

z42

Staff Sergeant

Snautzer01

Honourably banned

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads