What makes an ace?

[MichaelHenley]

Whoa! That's a lot!
I think that you need to kill a LOT of planes that would take mor than luck to kill, e.g. Back in WWII: 20 Planes before you become an ace, Today: Maybe 30-60?

P.S. Mabe we could have an ace ranking if we don't have one already?

 

[toffi]

Lesofprimus, there is one part missing in Your aces list.

POLAND:
Stanislaw Skalski 22 - ww2 first ace - 6 kills in Sept. 1939
Witold Urbanowicz 18
Eugeniusz Horbaczewski 16,5
Boleslaw Gladych 14
Jan Zumbach 12,5
Marian Pisarek 11

Rest of pilots had less than 10 kills.

 

[lesofprimus]

Hey... Thx for the info. I have copied it to my list...

 

[Lightning Guy]

30-60 planes today to become an ace? No one would ever make that! Most aviation experts doubt anyone will ever again hit five. Here's why. There are far fewer aircraft today than their were in WWI or WWII. The entire USAF ACC has somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 aircraft today. That is less than the total of just the 8th AF in WWII. What is more, barring a very large scale war (which is blessedly unlikely) a pilot is unlikely to have the time or the targets required to be an ace. I don't remember off hand but I believe the total air-to-air kills for the Gulf War were around 40 and I don't know of any individual pilot who had more than 2.

 

[Maestro]

FRENCH

Pierre H. Closterman 33

Can somebody exlain that to me ? If Pierre H. Closterman was French, how the hell was he able to fly with the R.A.F. 602 Squadron ? Didn't Free French Forces had their own squadrons ?

Anybody who can explain it to me is welcome...

 

[plan_D]

I think there were still mixed squadrons. LG, I doubt the air-to-air kills in the Gulf even reached 40, we destroyed their aircraft while on the ground. In the Falklands Harriers of the RN got a quite nice kill rate, for the loss of three to ground fire.

LG is right. There'll never be such thing as an ace these days.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

perhaps he was just put into a normall squadren................

 

[toffi]

Closterman was French, how the hell was he able to fly with the R.A.F. 602 Squadron ?

Many Poles was put in RAF fighter squadrons in 1940, as there was only 2 pure Polish squadrons (302. 303.) at this time.

 

[Dan]

what makes an Ace (hmm they should write a book on that) well what i think makes and Ace is a pilot who can make a certain amount of kills (hot streak) without being shoot down (hey does the names Erich Hartmann (german bf-109 ace) and Cdr. Tommy Blackburn (American F4U-1A Ace sound familiar to u guys?)

 

[Lightning Guy]

According to the research done by Tom Clancy, there where 41 air-to-air kills in the Gulf. 35 were by F-15s, 2 from F-18s, 2 from F-14s, and 2 by A-10s (over Iraqi helicopters).

 

[plan_D]

I don't believe that. Especially the A-10 ones. Unless they had just got off the deck, then in my books that's not an air-to-air kill. What was shot down?

 

[Lightning Guy]

The A-10 kills are reported (in detail) in a magazine I have (not with me unfortunately). At least one (and I believe both) were over Mi-8 'Hip' helicopters. In both instances, the pilots attempted to engage with the AIM-9s recently added to Hog's arsenal. However, neither pilot could get a tone and so they both resorted to using the GAU-8. 30mm DU rounds will make very short work of any helicopter.

 

[MichaelHenley]

30-60 planes today to become an ace?...

Sorry about the giant miscalculation! I was just thinking of how difficult it would be to get an Air-to-air kill these days, as opposed to during WWII.

 

[lesofprimus]

Plan d... If u doubt the research done by Tom Clancy, whose research can u trust in??

 

[plan_D]

There's no doubt in my mind the cannon on the A-10 could destroy a Hip. It's still unbelievable, if only through shock.

If you blindly follow all, then you'll never find anything. Every historian, or military expert has made mistakes. I would believe it much easier if I knew the planes downed.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

hehe, that's true, we had a history lesson on the BoB the other day, the teacher kept making mistakes so i had to correct him in front of the whole class................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well, I've seen the accounts of the A-10 kills in more than one source. Checking the total number of kills, sources seem to vary, but the total for the Gulf War appears to be right around 40.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

so pretty much their entire air force ................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Actually the Iraqis had a fairly impressive on paper. Most of them were blown up in their HAS. The ones that weren't mostly ran for Iran. Very few of them came up to fight but even fewer lived to tell about it.

 

[plan_D]

They also had one of the largest men armies in the world. Until we blew it up in '90 then again in '03. They just never learn.