What plane do you wish had sawservice

How about "plane you wish had gotten into combat quicker or more smoothly".

As much of a 4th FG devotee as I am, I still wonder what the 56th could have done with the P-47M if they hadn't had such long lasting teething issues with it. Outstanding plane, what might they have accomplished if it had gotten into combat smoothly in the winter of 44-45 instead being fequently grounded until the problems were finally ironed out in April?

Was just reading about the -229. Thinking about the newly built Me-262 that flies today, who knows, maybe we'll see a -229 fly one day....siiiiigh!
Other than that my fellow forum travellers, I think that you've already mentioned most of the X-planes that I'd have loved to see in service in WWII.

Yes Treize. Except for the range issue, it is difficult to see what role the Mustang would have performed better.

I have read that in the field they were pushing it to around 485mph (10-15mph over the purported maximum speed). The Thunderbolt was no longer just high altitude performer. She also had a 3,775fpm climb at S/L.

Spitfire Mk III:

Essentially the Mk VIII airframe with clipped tips, more fuel, new landing gear and a Merlin XX engine. 400 mph Spitfire, should of been flying in squadron numbers in March/April 1941.

Tempest II:

Faster, smoother, more manouverable version of the Tempest V.

MB. 5.

Take the cooling system rear fuselage of a P-51, marry it to the wings and nose of a Griffon engined Spitfire and, well, you get the idea.

Whirlwind Mk II

1260 hp Peregrines (a 40% increase in power), combined with an extra 300 miles range, cross feed tanks and new Rotol high activity props. Should of been escorting Sterlings, Halis and Lancs, but Fighter Commmand never really considered long-range daylight escort its job.

I still think in the Pacific Theatre the B-36 Peacemaker would have done a better job of fire-bombing Japan than the B-29 as it is just larger, and longer flying it could carry more bombs to drop and if it could have been manufactured in similar time to a B-29 which it was largely looking like the same aircraft only larger, it could really have won the war over Japan without the need for the atomic bombs. Especially if it was escorted by large numbers of P-38 Lightnings over the targets with orders to destroy anything that moved or didn't move...

HealzDevo said:

it could really have won the war over Japan without the need for the atomic bombs.

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All it would of meant was less aircraft for more bang. It wasn't necessarily going to destroy cities any better than the B-29 nor was it going to sway the determination of the Japanese leadership. Only seeing one of their cities obliterated by one bomb was the answer...

I thought the Japanese leadership was starting to lose ground and the only reason the atomic bomb was dropped was to make sure the Russians didn't beat the US to Japan. I had thought that was the subconscious reason for that decision rather than a more prolonged bombing campaign which could have done just as good a job of it.

HealzDevo said:

I thought the Japanese leadership was starting to lose ground and the only reason the atomic bomb was dropped was to make sure the Russians didn't beat the US to Japan. I had thought that was the subconscious reason for that decision rather than a more prolonged bombing campaign which could have done just as good a job of it.

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NOPE - Read David Jablownski's book "Wings of Fire." Although the Japanese navy was just about destroyed they still had about 8000 combat planes. Very few on Tojo's staff would even think about surrendering and even after the second atomic bomb was dropped there were many leaders in the Japanese military that still wanted to push for one last battle "just to save face." The Russians were nothing more than gold diggers and seeing that big mushroom cloud made them think twice about making any advancements in the region although they would have you to believe that the US dropped the bomb "just to scare them."

With or without the B-36 entering service in time to fly in the Pacific was irrevalent - the out come would of been the same.

Just a question on speculative history. I had just questioned that outcome but then it could have gone either way without the Russian pressure...

HealzDevo said:

Just a question on speculative history. I had just questioned that outcome but then it could have gone either way without the Russian pressure...

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You're damned right it would of gone either way without the Russian pressure - They had nothing to repel that huge fleet in the Pacific Ocean had they tried something stupid...

Agreed so it is one of those questions that could have gone either way, because while Japan may have still been stubborn without Russia there might not have been that need to crack Japanese resistance so quickly...

The need to crack Japan quickly was not really because of Russia but rather the quickest way to end the war with minimal casualties. Russia was just a side note.

Grumman F8

I mentioned the Z.1018 and Ca.331. I was going to post some more about them but forgot about it. So...

The first one is the CANT Z.1018 Leone. IIRC it flew for the first time in 1940 and was an improved Z.1007. Because it too had two 1350 hp engines it can easily be compared to the Ju 88. However it was much faster with a maximum speed of 524 km/h. I assume it could carry the same bomb load as the Z.1007, which is 2000 kg theoretically but usually 1200 kg. It also had a more effective (= all-round) armament of 5 MGs. Personally I find it especially interesting to note that it could be build out of wood or out of metal. Building such an aircraft out of wood would make it very cheap while retaining its excellent performance. There was also a heavy fighter and a night fighter version planned. This one was supposed to have stronger engines making it capable of speeds of up to 395 mph! In April 1944 American bombers destroyed the production lines and also some Z.1018s which were ordered by the Luftwaffe...

The second one is the Caproni Ca.331 Raffica. Originally it was a four-place light reconnaissance bomber (this version obtained designation Ca.331A) and flew for the first time in August 1940. In the spring of 1941 the prototype was transferred to official testing where it showed good flying and combat characteristics. However, Regia Aeronautica voted against production because "the aircraft has a too uncommon construction". Besides "uncommon" construction the aircraft had one additional large deficiency in the eyes of the Regia Aeronautica: it used many duralumin elements, and duralumin was mainly supplied from Germany. Aircraft was returned to Caproni, and was then transferred to the Luftwaffe test center in Rechlin. The Luftwaffe highly estimated the aircraft's flight qualities - one test pilot is suppose to have called it "kolossal gut!" - and planned to order 1000 aircraft in the combat training version with dual control under designation Ca.331G. After the first prototype the second prototype (MM.428) was a night fighter. This version had the designation Ca.331B. After the beginning of the allied air raids in 1942 the Regia Aeronautica planned to order 1000 series Ca.331B. But this order remained only on paper and only one additional prototype was built. The first prototype Ca.331B was tested with the complete armament during August 1943. This aircraft was also planned to be used as a fighter-bomber. For these purposes a bomb bay was created in which it could hold a bombload of a total weight of up to 1000 kg. Another option for the Ca.331B was one 500 kilogram bomb and one extra fuel tank with a capacity of 616 liters. It was also planned to create an assault version with a 37-mm gun and FIAT Ra-1050 rc.58 "Tifone" (=DB 605) engines. It was planned that the maximum speed of this aircraft would be 644 km/h. Work on the production of aircraft at the Caproni Bergamaschi plants in Ponte San Peters was working at full speed at the moment of the capitulation of Italy, with a lease to store the fabricated parts of the aircraft on different locations. The finished prototypes of this aircraft were exported to Germany where their tracks were lost. (translated freely from some Russian site)


I believe a Ca 331B with DB 605s would have made an excellent night fighter with a higher speed and more internal room than the Bf 110G. This version was going to be called the Ca.365.
Powered with Jumo 211s it would have been an excellent reconaissance bomber while the Z.1018 could also be used as a night fighter and bomber.

Kris

Here a couple of pics of the CA331. I do have some material on the CANT 1018 Leone, let me know if it may be interesting to translate it

Recon/bomber 1
Recon/bomber 2
Night Fighter

The Z.1018 had Alfa Romeo 135 engines (doubled 126s) giving 1350hp (later 1500hp). In 1938 this engine was run on 100-octane fuel and gave 2000hp, but this fuel wasn't available for everyday use so standard 87-oct was used at a lower power. This would increase the speed to around 600km/h.

Also I would have like to the Gloster Meteor with Metrovick F.3 engines (it flew in 1942 with similar F.2 engines). There wouldn't be much argument then about the best jet fighter of the war. It would have made early jets airliners so much cheaper to run as well.

Isn't she a beauty??

I would like to receive more information on the Leone. PM? No need to translate, I kinda understand the language

Kris

Civettone said:

I would like to receive more information on the Leone. PM? No need to translate, I kinda understand the language

Kris

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THE GREAT PLANES Community - GOT: The CANT Z.1018

RTF has summarised the story well in this thread.

Sweeeeeet...

Kris

What about the Handley Page Halifax? Once they ironed out its early flaws it became a very capable machine, but it's completely overshadowed by the Lancaster