You done it again stupid, you talk about English colonialism, when it was British, you denigrate other participants in the war by omission and your obvious obsession with English public schools and class, I am an ex steel worker you Berk. Take a look at the USA front line aircraft strength on Sept 3 1939 before you make comments about others preparations and class systems and then explain Pearl Harbour bearing in mind the war had been going on for 2 years.
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- Thread starter
- #543
Look bruh, I was pointing out the flaws in every major country in WW2, not just the UK. Did you miss that part?
The only reason France, UK, US, Soviets etc. were not as prepared for war in say, 1938 is because nobody thought anyone was crazy enough to start another World War. In other words, the German leadership was literally crazy in my opinion to start the war, as you can see by how their country was doing in 1945.
I respect somebody who was a steelworker, so cheers, just try not to be so emotional about (incorrectly) perceived national bias or the slightest whiff of teasing. I thought you Britishers were better about taking a little ribbing. I'm just "taking the piss" a little bit because you are so consistently hostile.
For the record I don't hold any grudge whatsoever against any of the pilots in WW2 and to the contrary, respect the hell out of them. I've been lucky enough to meet a few over the course of my life. In particular I respect the DAF pilots because I read a lot about them. I'm even enough of an old nerd to have built a few plastic models and I have Spitfire MK V, Spit Mk IX, Hurricane IIC, P-40 (of course) SM 79, MC 200 and 202, Re 2002 and a Bf 109F-4 (trop) in view as I type this. Mostly Airfix kits!
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michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
If all could forgive my ignorance. I'm trying to follow along here and what are " confederate forces" in the context on ww2?
I'm guessing another slang term for US forces like" Yankee"? Just never heard it before.
I'm guessing another slang term for US forces like" Yankee"? Just never heard it before.
As far as air warfare is concerned, which is the subject of this forum, the RAF with Dowdings system of Command and Control has set the post war standard for air warfare, by 1940 there were airborne Radar equipped fighters and by 1944 the forerunner of AWACs. It was the Germans who were fighting the last war and the British fighting the next one in 1940. Both Dowding and Churchill could see the conflict generalled by Park better than any head of politics and head of a military force had ever seen a battle before, Goering and Hitler got "reports" a few days or weeks later. Your discussion of the adoption of the "finger four" by the RAF is as if they were simpletons, well the RAF and the LW had stopped mass unescorted high altitude deep penetration daylight raids in 1940, but the Confederate forces of Texas decided it was a great idea in 1943. Were they Victorian inbred class ridden schoolboys too? After all President Roosevelt was a very rich guy from a very rich family and he married a woman from the same very rich family and was also called Roosevelt, consider that and the Kennedys and the Bushes before you blather about other nations. In short, stick to aviation.
Shortround6
Major General
Couple of points gentlemen
How much was the fault of Curtiss and how much was the fault of the US army is subject to question. Curtiss may well own the P-46 but the P-53/P-60 saga sure as some fingerprints of the US Army in it. I don't know who came up with the idea of eight .50 cal machine guns but the big wing and large heavy airframe weren't far behind. Did Curtiss try to use the Continental IV-1430 engine to gain favor with the Army or had the Army let it be known that they were looking for a new fighter powered by that engine? In any case you are talking about an engine that was 180lbs heavier and about 2 ft longer than the -39 Allison used in the P-40E. You want big engines you usually need big airplanes. With the IV-1430 a non starter the Curtiss team began the mad scramble for alternative engines.
The P-38 never really operated in Europe in 1942. The two (?) fighter groups that had them were reassigned to the North African invasion before they went operational and a 3rd group forming up was used for replacements. Aside from a handful of photo recon planes P-38s would NOT operate in NW Europe until Oct of 1943.
How much was the fault of Curtiss and how much was the fault of the US army is subject to question. Curtiss may well own the P-46 but the P-53/P-60 saga sure as some fingerprints of the US Army in it. I don't know who came up with the idea of eight .50 cal machine guns but the big wing and large heavy airframe weren't far behind. Did Curtiss try to use the Continental IV-1430 engine to gain favor with the Army or had the Army let it be known that they were looking for a new fighter powered by that engine? In any case you are talking about an engine that was 180lbs heavier and about 2 ft longer than the -39 Allison used in the P-40E. You want big engines you usually need big airplanes. With the IV-1430 a non starter the Curtiss team began the mad scramble for alternative engines.
The P-38 never really operated in Europe in 1942. The two (?) fighter groups that had them were reassigned to the North African invasion before they went operational and a 3rd group forming up was used for replacements. Aside from a handful of photo recon planes P-38s would NOT operate in NW Europe until Oct of 1943.
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- #547
I'm trying hard to be polite mate, because it's Christmas and you worked in a steel mill, right? But don't try to tell me what to do - you couldn't impose your will on me in person let alone in the misty enclaves of the interwebs wherein there is no purchase for neither fang nor foot.
I already told you - you can call the Americans anything you want. I don't have a dog in that race.
I never said anything disparaging to radar or fighter command.
For the rest of the nationalistic comparisons, feel free to debate that with someone who cares - preferably in another thread.
I did my bit in the military 30 years ago and I'm glad to say I'm not going to war any time soon.
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- #548
Sure whatever - I'm sure the War Dept had it's share of blame. Certainly in the other Curtiss scandals there were officers taking bribes.
Europe as in North Africa and the middle of the Med in 1942, Italy and Yugoslavia in 1943, forgive me the shorthand - but actually P-38s ended up flying out of Italy all over Europe in later years.
The point of the comment was "P-38 against the Germans" vs. against the Japanese. It's the same German fighters whether over Brest, Tunis or Palermo.
You started them, you don't include the British class system in the discussions of RR Merlin superchargers, even though they were obviously products of it. Your posts are dripping with flag waving fanboyism to the point that you would compare a P-40 to a Typhoon.
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- #550
- Thread starter
- #551
Thanks for that! So it looks like 18 Typhoon squadrons active in 1943, which is basically the same as the P-40F for the first six months of 43. Remarkably similar oeprational trajectories.
In May 1943 for P-40F/L you had:
57th FG - 3 squadrons
325th FG 3 squadrons
324th FG 3 squadrons
33rd FG 3 squadrons
79th F 3 squadrons
99th FS (Tuskgegee) 1 squadron
260 RAF 1 squadron
3 RAAF 1 squadron
Group de Chasse something or other, (Free French) 2 Squadrons (and 1 Spitfire)
So that is a total of 20 squadrons.
By Oct 1943 though 57th and 325th have converted to P-47s so then it's 14 squadrons after that. Some of the other converted to other types in 1944.
Operational histories look very similar in terms of active deployment strength though.
Shortround6
Major General
That is a bit like saying because Buick did something wrong in General Motors then Cadillac and Chevrolet must be guilty too.
Curtiss-WRIGHT was a major corporation that comprised Curtiss aircraft in Buffalo NY, Columbus Ohio and ST Louis Missouri and Lexington Kentucky.
Engine factories were in several locations and the scandal was in the one in Lockland Ohio.
There were also propeller factories in New Jersey (along with the home engine plant, much expanded and provided with satellite plants)
We have been over the geography before. If you want to use your own shorthand that nobody else uses then be prepared for confusion.
BTW the weather conditions over Tunis or Palermo are hardly the same as over Hamburg or Hanover in the winter.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I have no clue...it appears that the term was used as a reference to class, perhaps?
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- #554
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Gotcha.
Anyone who knows (or understands) U.S. history (in a non-PC context) would know that the rise of the Confederate states was a result of imbalanced political representation in the Senate during the 1840's and 1850's.
- Thread starter
- #557
Here's a very good website on he Typhoon Hawker Typhoon RB396 » Restoration, with lots of information on its development.
This Tempest website has some great information on the Sabre engine and how good it was, The Hawker Tempest Page .
I think a few of you need to tone it down and relax. Drink a beer, get laid, rub one off, something to get your internet testosterone in balance. Not taking sides here. Both of you are acting rediculous. It really does remind me of the FIFA World Cup thread.
Chill out, be adults or the thread will be closed for a cooling down period.
Chill out, be adults or the thread will be closed for a cooling down period.
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