Which is the better fighter, P-40F or Typhoon?

[Stig1207]

2 x Hurricanes (not listed in Shores summary)
2 x Tomahawk (not listed in Shores summary, one crashed and one force-landed)

2 x Hurricanes. 1 Tomahawk shot down and 1 force-landed. They are, oddly enough, listed on p. 148, ch 2 Disasters on the Gazala Line, along with some of the German claims and some of the the British claims are repeated

3 x Bf 109 shot down (all three say "lost to P-40")

From the summary on p. 224:

Bf 109F4 Wnr 8680 Black <1+I combat landed slightly damaged , Lt Walter Hicke WIA (Shores attributes this one to Edwards' claim for a probable)
Bf 109F4 Wnr 10163 White 6+I combat P-40; Lt Heinrich Hesse rescued next day ( In the narrative Shores suggests that Hesse went down in the fight with the Beaufighters ?!?)
Bf 109F4 Wnr 10068 Black 9+I combat P-40 ; Lt Karl-Heinz Quaritsch MIA (Attributed to van der Spuy 5 SAAF)

 

[Schweik]

Do you guys realize how silly this all sounds to the rest of us?
Cheers,
Wes

Dude, that was all him...

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Dude, that was all him...

Takes two to tango. According to my old Kung Fu Sensei: "You must learn to choose your battles. It's a braver and wiser man who walks away from a fight he knows he would have won, realizing that victory was less important than the harmony it would disrupt." Or words to that effect. He was more eloquent than I could ever hope to be.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[Schweik]

I did, actually. If you are going to go out of your way to ridicule somebodies posts you might want to read them carefully first. I can't tell with that guy if he's serious or not, his posts always seem to be a bit off to me. I was trying to be polite by answering his direct questions in spite of their incoherence, until it became clear he was more off than usual. Maybe he's a heavy drinker in general, maybe not, but I'd bet ten bottles of Schnapps that he was wasted last night.

 

[Schweik]

2 x Hurricanes. 1 Tomahawk shot down and 1 force-landed. They are, oddly enough, listed on p. 148, ch 2 Disasters on the Gazala Line, along with some of the German claims and some of the the British claims are repeated


From the summary on p. 224:

Bf 109F4 Wnr 8680 Black <1+I combat landed slightly damaged , Lt Walter Hicke WIA (Shores attributes this one to Edwards' claim for a probable)
Bf 109F4 Wnr 10163 White 6+I combat P-40; Lt Heinrich Hesse rescued next day ( In the narrative Shores suggests that Hesse went down in the fight with the Beaufighters ?!?)
Bf 109F4 Wnr 10068 Black 9+I combat P-40 ; Lt Karl-Heinz Quaritsch MIA (Attributed to van der Spuy 5 SAAF)

Good catch, that section was a bit convoluted and fairly poorly documented as you too noticed, I think. Of course there was air activity going on in two different 'spheres' simultaneously and Shores splits up the action sometimes which is where many of these omissions happen.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

If you are going to go out of your way to ridicule somebodies posts you might want to read them carefully first.

I did, and have no intent to ridicule anybody, just provide a different perspective on you two gent's "friendly conversation". I also have no intent of getting into a back-and-forth with either of you over it. As far as I'm concerned, this exchange is over.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[pbehn]

Do you guys realize how silly this all sounds to the rest of us?
Cheers,
Wes

I do, but I also am a loss to understand how the anecdotes of Billy Drake who first flew in the RAF 1936 has to do with the discussion. I see no evidence that the RAF considered the P-40 to be sub standard, they replaced Hurricane squadrons with P-40s of various types which were upgraded throughout the war. I see no evidence that the pilots using P-40s were substandard in fact much evidence to the contrary, and the fact that squadrons transitioned from Hurricanes to P-40s would suggest the idea that sub standard pilots were given P-40s is nonsense. Actually what I see is a view from across the Atlantic that the "Brits" hated American aircraft because they were American. This view is always expressed about planes that the USA didn't think much of either. Like the P-39 and the B-17 as first introduced. This view always ignores the obvious fact that the same Brits would have taken any amount of P-51s Catalinas Corsairs and literally dozens of other types.

 

[Macandy]

In all, 18 Royal Air Force (RAF) squadrons, four Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), three South African Air Force (SAAF) and two Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) squadrons serving with RAF formations, used P-40s. That is a boatload of substandard pilots, can you explain how they were selected?

The RAF husbanded it's best pilots for the UK, if you were good, off to Spitfires, if you weren't terribly good, you got Hurricanes or ACC - the others? The SAAF pilots were generally not terribly proficient, often using terrible fighter tactics when bounced.
The primary job of the DAF was ground attack, not air superiority and it showed in a combination of often inferior planes and not first dibs of aircrew.
It was an aviation backwater that allowed experten like Marseille to shine - briefly.
Could have been worse, you could have been really dire and ended up in the Far East.

 

[slaterat]

they replaced Hurricane squadrons with P-40s of various types

I don't know where you read this but it is almost completely false. RAF Hurricanes were never replaced by any P-40s in Europe. They were largely replaced by Typhoons by the end of 42. In fact the RAF never really thought any P-40 was good enough for front line service in Northern Europe, they very much preferred their Hurricane Mk IIs.

In the Mediterranean theater only only 250 and 260 Squads replaced Hurricanes with Kittyhawks, and those were very old clapped out Hurricane Mk 1s. The rest of the Hurricane squads were replaced almost exclusively by Spitfires mostly by the end of 43.

In the far East Hurricanes were largely, but not completely, replaced by Thunderbolts and some Spits by the end of 44.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Do you guys realize how silly this all sounds to the rest of us?
Cheers,
Wes

And on that note...