Which theater of War Would you choose for flying?

[plan_D]

No tank was fitted with AA MGs above 7.62mm as standard. There were higher calibre of 12.7mm (Captured) and 13mm retrofitted later on in the war.
I shall find where it's mentioned, and maybe find a picture for you.

You wouldn't want to go up against a column of tanks with a few of these as support. Some later models were equipped with RADAR.

 

[Erich]

actually the turret moved to slowly and the unit with 1st W-SS in the Ardenne lost them all to ground forces. The best defence these put up was protection of the Panthers and Pz IV's of 1st SS against US ground forces where they could bring their 2cm fire to painful effect. Against Allied a/c they were sitting ducks....

E ~

 

[Erich]

the 4 mgs' ? would you mean the excellent piece 2cm Flakvierling ?

here is another piece of AA that the Allies were glad there were not too many of. Flak-zwilling in 3.7cm. used as a ground and air unit plus tower defence agasint low flying Allied strafers.

 

[Erich]

here is a pic of a Kriegsmarine version on one of the many ships and used for air defence. 2cm Flakvierling. although a navy version this frou barreled job was used extensively by the Luftwaffe Fla units.

 

[plan_D]

The 2cm Vierling Wirbelwind which equipped the Flugabwehrzug of the Panzer Divisions were only seen as poor COMPARED to the 3.7cm FlaK which provided quick effective fire on both Air and Ground targets. Strafing a tank column with these 2cm and 3.7cm Wirbelwinds covering it, was not a fun experience.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I don't have any direct experience with any German Flak guns (thank goodness). However, my experience on flight sims has inspired a healthy hate/respect of their 2cm AA guns.

 

[MP-Willow]

LG -there are some good combat stories of pilots and the flack. Also I think I read some of P-38s, but that might have been pacific, and I forget where I read it. Even if the turret was to slow the whole tank could turn to face the straffer. That is not as good, but the four guns just need to get in the way. With radar and radios I thik things could get pitty hairry for P-47s and others tropping in on them.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well, i don't thing you want want to fly head on into a colum of these things....................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well, when I have faced them in flight sims I have prefered to attack them via dive-bombing. If at all possible I always try and stay the heck away from them using the ground as cover.

 

[plan_D]

They were deadly pieces of machinery and very effective. They were the best mobile AA unit the Wehrmacht had and I think they might be the best of the war.

The Americans mostly had theirs on halftracks and I've seen prototypes on Shermans. The British used Light Tank Mk. II and III also they used the Crusader. The Soviets used trucks, basically.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Americans mostly relied on the .50cal for ground defense. While I think the .50cal was a good choice for air-to-air, I think 20mm is better as an anti-aircraft weapon. The .50cal has neither the range nor altitude to be very effective. For a fighter this is less important as the fighter is highly mobile whereas even SP AA guns are still realitively fixed.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i've seen quite a funny piece of footage in which an american (i think) truck with a AA gun on the back is speeding around, very fast, and when it goes round a corner it almost goes over sideways, the gunner keeps firing the whole time.........................

 

[plan_D]

The Americans used .50cal, 20mm and 37mm for mobile AA. And as I said mainly on Halftracks. A very good Canadian design off the Grizzly (M4A1) called the Skink AA had Quad-Polsten 20mm cannons but was never put into full production.

There was an American design off the Grant chassis called the T36 with a 40mm AA cannon. I can't find a picture of that.
Another American design off the M24 Chaffee was the T77E1 which had a computing sight system and was armed with Quad .50 cal. There is a pic on Google images just type in T77E1 (As if you really care)

There was a British one based on the Light Tank Mk. II called the Light Tank AA Mk. II (Weren't we inventive) which had four 7.92mm Besa Machine guns.

Also one based off the Crusader III (Cruiser Tank) called the Crusader III AA. The Mk. I had the turret removed and replaced by a 40mm AA cannon. Mk. II and III had two 20mm Oerlikon cannon put in the turret.

There was also a triple-Oerlikon version which had the cannons in open turret. Only used for training though. I only can find pictures of models, for them.

There were some more AA based on tanks but I can't be bothered. The British tanks had a good personal AA defence when the crew could be bothered to fit it or get engineers to do it. Twin-MG which was two either Vickers or Bren wielded to one another then on to the tank.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

to be honest i don't really think i would be that scared if i went up against what would look like a tank with just a couple of MGs in the turret......................

 

[plan_D]

None of them have couple of MGs. If you are refering to the last picture they are two 20mm cannons.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

I'm a farmer, as such "a couple" is the only numerical tern i know, "a couple" where i come from can refer to any number below 7

 

[plan_D]

So you are refering to the Light AA Mk. III (or II) with FOUR 7.92mm. When you have four of those tanks per tank company its better than a few troops hoping for the best with Bren guns.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yes, but it's still not perfect.....................

 

[plan_D]

Nothing ever is. As Erich rightly pointed out the 2cm Vierling Wirbelwinds were destroyed by aircraft at times, the things they were supposed to be destroying. They still weren't poor, but not perfect. The 3.7cm ones were very good, the best of the mobile AA in my opinion.

 

[Lightning Guy]

All of this sounds like a good reason to prefer the Pacific to me