Which US WWII fighter shot down the most enemy aircraft?

[drgondog]

T

How about Gabreski's D-11 (42-75510) ?

Timppa - Gabby flew several HVA's that are undifferentiated by Olynyk, which I use as a fall back to my own data.

Frank has 'blank' serial numbers from P-47D-1RE 42-7871 (Dec 11) until June 7. After June 7 HVA was P-47D-25RE 42-26418 (the one he went down in). He also got 6 VCs in HVE and HVZ before his last HVA 43-26418. In between he flew HVA P-47D-21RE 42-75510 but not definitive when he got the -21 and when he traded in 42-7871. I would have to do some research on the IARC's to figure out the transition but I believe the -21RE's started ops in late April, 1944 with 56th FG.

That said, allowing for all 1944 VCs Jan1 through June 6 as 75510, then maximum in 75510 is 8.

 

[MiTasol]

Some of the numbers in the Pacific are definitely suspect.

Years ago had a few beers with Supe Hoysington at Aero Sport, Chino CA (Greg P probably knew the man)

He was on the USAAC/USAAF crash/rescue boats based at Kiriwina in PNG during the war and they were regularly strafed and bombed by US aircraft based at Milne Bay even though the decks of all 3 boats were painted with the US flag.

He said they were never hit and occasionally got the aircraft buzz number

On their regular supply runs to Milne Bay they would go to the records there and demand the flight records for the buzz numbers that had strafed and/or bombed them.

According to those records the US crash boats were always a Japanese vessel, usually a destroyer but once even a cruiser, and were always sunk.

I bet the same applied to most, if not all, other services.

 

[DarrenW]

Old Thread but still an interesting one. From what I've read in Hellcat Aces of World War 2 and elsewhere, there's a pretty good chance that Cdr David McCampbell has the record for number of kills scored on a single airframe by a US pilot. As many as 23.5 victories were scored in his F6F-5 named Minsi III (BuNo 70143), which McCampbell flew almost exclusively during Sept - Nov 1944 (he was the CAG so he had that privilege). It's quite possibly the most recognizable Hellcat in history.

McCampbell was also the highest scoring US Naval aviator with 34 aerial victories, as well as the highest scoring US fighter pilot to survive the war. He's also noted for scoring a US record of nine aerial victories during a single combat mission (five Zekes, two Hamps, and two Oscars on 24 Oct 1944), and achieved "ace in a day" on two separate occasions.

Photo Source: https://en.valka.cz/files/mccampbell1_868.jpg

 

[Smokey Stover]

I dont know the numbers off the top of my head like the rest of you all, but my first guess was the Hellcat. Does anyone have any ideas why it was not used in large numbers in Europe? Same goes for the Corsair. I mean i know they were carrier based aircraft but the Corsairs were operating from land based runways for quite some time. At least the US pilots were anyway. Britain were pretty quick to figure out how to land one on the deck of a carrier. Not surprising it was hard though with that huge R2800 right up front. The famous curved approach was standard for FAA pilots.

 

[fubar57]

Fleet Air Arm operated Corsairs and Hellcats around Norway. I'll have to get to the books for more accurate info

 

[Glider]

Not many carrier operations in Europe but I think the germans did get hold of a Corsair from one of the operations

 

[Schweik]

That has several answers. My answers come only from kills by American fighters flown in US service.

1) In any single theater of oeprations, the top would be the F6F Hellcat, with 5,168 kills in the Pacific Thearter of Operations. Next would the P-51 Mustang with 4,950 kills in the European Theater of Operations.

2) For the entire war combined, all theaters, it would be the P-51 Mustang with 5,954 kills in ETO, MTO, PTO, and CBI all combined, followed by the Hellcat with 5,168 in PTO and ETO.

These numbers come from a 1945-1946 report compiled by the US Navy for the Hellcat and the Air Force Historical Society for the P-51.

Since the war, there have been several "revisions" of kills .... sadly. They should let them stand as approved in the conflict of interest, by people in the service at the time. Just my opinion.

Either way, the Hellcat and Mustang are neck in neck for the title.

The third-ranking fighter for kills was the P-38, with 3,785 in all Theaters of operation combined. The theater of operations with the most enemy aircraft shot down was the PTO, with 12,666 enemy aircraft shot down.

I actually think if you counted RAF / Commonwealth, Soviet, and American victories, it's probably the P-40.

P-40 is the 4th ranking in terms of victories from US pilots, but was also in very heavy use by the Commonwealth and Soviets, each of whom had close to 50 pilots who made Ace (or double or triple or quadruple Ace) while flying the type.

Depends if you count victories with US aircraft by pilots of other countries or only by USAAF pilots.

As for the revisions, the cross-checking of claims and so on - I think it's a good thing. you just have to compare Apples to Apples. Cross -verified victories and victory claims are two different things, you have to be careful not to mix them. For example when comparing aircraft types or Aces.

The Cross-verified victories are at least to date, somewhat more limited because you can't always be sure about who shot down what plane on a given day. I have tried to do this myself - on some days for example you have 20 victory claims by 12 pilots flying three types of aircraft, and the enemy records show 11 losses - you can't always tell who got a victory, who probably got a partial victory (3 aircraft shooting at the same damaged enemy plane for example) and who just made a mistake (somebody who shot at a plane but missed, and later saw the pilot bail out because somebody else hit it, or somebody who shot at a plane and saw smoke and saw it going down, but didn't realize it was just burning oil because the pilot firewalled the throttle and did a Split S to escape etc.)

At least some of the time it can however give you a much clearer idea of what was happening on a given day, and sometimes there really is very little doubt what actually happened based on the records of both sides.

S

 

[GrauGeist]

Not many carrier operations in Europe but I think the germans did get hold of a Corsair from one of the operations

The Corsair was one of the few Allied planes that the Axis had few examples of.

The Germans did capture an intact FAA Corsair, an F4U-1A of 1841 Naval Air Squadron (JT404) when it suffered engine trouble and had to set down near Bodø, Norway in July 1944. Lt. Mattholie was taken POW and the Corsair eventually ended up at Reichlin. For one reason or another, no photos of the captured Corsair survive.

The Japanese managed to cobble together a some-what complete Corsair from several airframes, but there doesn't seem to be any surviving document as to whether it was flown or not. It was last seen at Kasumigaura Flight School.

 

[Peter Gunn]

Remember, the OP was asking about which AIRFRAME had the highest amount of victories to its credit, not a plane type. It's not "the Hellcat" or "the Mustang", it's A Mustang, probably George Preddy's Cripes 'A Mighty III P-51D 44-13597 if I've read the thread right.

 

[fubar57]

That's what I thought as well but it could go the other way also

 

[Schweik]

That's what I thought as well but it could go the other way also

Yeah it's two different conversations at this point. I'd be interested to know the other answer too though. You do run across those planes sometimes in which multiple pilots got numerous victories. I can't remember the right sources for the examples though.

 

[DarrenW]

Remember, the OP was asking about which AIRFRAME had the highest amount of victories to its credit, not a plane type. It's not "the Hellcat" or "the Mustang", it's A Mustang, probably George Preddy's Cripes 'A Mighty III P-51D 44-13597 if I've read the thread right.

Seeing that statistically they were number one and number two for the greatest number of "shoot-downs" in US aviation history, one would expect the answer to the OP to be a particular Mustang or a particular Hellcat....

 

[fubar57]

This won't be the most by any means but W/CDR James Edgar "Johnnie" Johnson shot down 12 aircraft and shared five plus six damaged in Spitfire Mk.IX EN398 and in a Spitfire LF Mk. IX MK392 he shot down 12 aircraft plus one shared destroyed on the ground
From: Johnnie Johnson's Spitfire Revisited — Camouflage & Markings | 1943 | Spitfire Mk. IX

 

[Zipper730]

This popped into my head over my lunch hour today. Which US aircraft piloted by American pillots is credited with shooting down the most enemy aircraft? I'm not talking which model aircraft, but which specific airframe/serial number is credited with the most kills during the Second World War.

What American flown plane has the most kills on it?

I'm not sure if that was ever asked before...

 

[GregP]

I started out thinking of the airframe type with the most kills. It is likely the Hellcat for a single theater of war and the P-51 overall for U.S. pilots. Then it was pointed out the question was the single airframe serial number with the most kills is what was asked for.

Then Schweik started thinking about the P-40 in Soviet service.

I'd say we confine our desires for research to something with some records that can be perused. Personally, I've never run across a primary Soviet source, and have relied on people who have researched the Soviet side by way of being able to speak, read, and write Russian. But during the communist reign over the Soviet Union, history was conveniently "revised" on several occasions, when someone was written out of history due to some transgression. Alas, I have never identified any really good Soviet sources and have only taken other's word for it.

I have some books, but they lack credibility as primary or even secondary sources.

If anyone knows of some good Soviet sources, particularly sources that have been translated into English, please post the source that might still be available. If not, maybe we should stick to western sources that can at least be found, even with some trouble.

Whatsay, any good sources for Soviet data out there? Maybe Schweik has a good case for the P-40, but I can't really discuss it one way or the other from what I know right now.

 

[fubar57]

Good freakin' Gawd.....every single thread. I'm outta this one now as well

 

[Zipper730]

Good freakin' Gawd.....every single thread. I'm outta this one now as well

I revised it Georgie Boy!

 

[Zipper730]

Olynyk, on the other hand, author of Stars and Bars - A Tribute to the American Fighter Ace, 1920-1973 and the recognized historian for the American Fighter Aces Association, went back through the combat reports and connected the dots with a pilot name to each credit, probable, or damaged, and the enemy type cited in the report, something not found in Barber's team's Naval Aviation Combat Statistics.

A lot of work, but it might be the best way to get the data.

I'd also point out that unless you have carefully gone through the Barber report and put it all in nice new spread sheets with nice new formulas you may find yourself zeroing in on some typos . . . that is, the numbers in calculation fields are not always typed in correctly

Good heads up for everybody

it follows the convention of the practitioners of period in tracking FM scores separate from F4F scores - now if you want to see an interesting credit to loss ratio, look at the Eastern FM-2.

I guess you'd have to add the FM kills with the F4F if you were going by type anyway.

 

[Schweik]

If anyone knows of some good Soviet sources, particularly sources that have been translated into English, please post the source that might still be available. If not, maybe we should stick to western sources that can at least be found, even with some trouble.

Whatsay, any good sources for Soviet data out there? Maybe Schweik has a good case for the P-40, but I can't really discuss it one way or the other from what I know right now.

Lets not go way down that road. You can find a lot of good interviews with former Soviet pilots here. That is basically what i was referring to, those interviews plus some overviews of Soviet records you'll find there, all in English. But of course yes, you can't be sure about Soviet records (I frankly don't think we can trust Nazi records 100% either but that is another ball of wax).

Maybe it's best to return to the OP and focus on the specific airplane, as in which serial number, accrued the largest number of victories.

If you want to discuss the other subject lets make another thread for it I don't want to mess up this one. For that matter I think there are a few old threads on this subject (which aircraft type had the most kills) already out there one of which could be revived.

S

 

[GregP]

Hi Schweik,

I agree, but the problem is how to establish the airframe with the most victories. We have to start somewhere. I've seen a lot of combat reports, and not many state the airframe serial number flown by the victor that I have seen. Also, most pilots did not always fly the plane with their name on it. If they were out of crew rest and a mission needed to go, someone else flew it.

So, my question was aimed at trying to establish a baseline where we could go LOOK for that information.

I have a LOT of data on aircraft and aerial victories from both sides, but almost none of it mentions the aircraft serial number flown by the victor and NONE of it mentions the aircraft serial number of the victim, as we would expect. Asking these questions is EASY. Getting answers is NOT, as we see.

Cheers.

Absent the data needed to support the conclusion, I'd nominate the Bf 109 as the type with the most victories, but the Yak-3/9 series might have an edge if only we knew had data to support it. Certainly the U.S. type with the most victories has to be either the F6F or the P-51. I'm leaning toward the F6F for the single aircraft serial number with the most victories (David McCampbell: F6F-5 Bu No 70143: 23.5 victories) and the P-51 as the U.S. airframe type with the most victories overall for the war.