Who would get to 40,000 feet first?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Thorlifter, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    I would look up climb rates on Wiki but we know how inaccurate Wiki can be. So it's a race to 40,000 feet. The only rule is the plane has to be war time production (no jets), it takes off, hits the throttle and climbs, full power.
     
  2. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    The Me163 would make it, hands down.

    I know you said no jets, however, the Me163 was not a jet :lol:
     
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  3. cimmex

    cimmex Member

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    my vote Bachem Ba 349
    cimmex
     
  4. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    DOH!!!! OK, Planes that use a propeller. And NO, you cannot vote for the V2. hahaha
     
  5. KiwiBiggles

    KiwiBiggles Member

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    Presumably the little propellory thing on the nose of the Me 163 doesn't count?
     
  6. soulezoo

    soulezoo Active Member

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    Hmmm, I saw this too late.

    GrauGeist beat me to it with the same answer and same sardonic reply.

    Go Komet! I think it could do that in about 3 minutes or so IIRC.
     
  7. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    Does the pilot have to live?

    :)

    Most piston engine planes were NOT rated to use full power for the time it would take to climb to 40,000ft (15 minutes or more even for a very, very good airplane).

    A P-47N clean could take 11 minutes or more just to climb from from 35,000ft to 40,000ft, (total time from ground 34 minutes) and that is at 2800rpm and 53in MAP.
     
  8. RCAFson

    RCAFson Well-Known Member

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    Probably a spitfire variant, such as the Mk XIV which could attain 40,000 ft in 15mins:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

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    Spit XIV 15min to 40,000ft, probably one of the best, Ta 152H-1 might well have been better.

    Juha
     
  10. RCAFson

    RCAFson Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that a Spit VII/VIII HF might be slightly better than the Mk XIV.
     
  11. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I would have thought so! :lol:
     
  12. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    I can't find hard data at the moment, but a phenominal climber was the early production KI-84, who's performance was equal to or in some cases, better than, Allied fighters at the time. However, toward the later days of the Pacific war, poor quality in fuel, engines and airframe assembly hurt the Hayate's performance.
     
  13. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    The big problem with the 40,000ft number is that there were a LOT of planes that were good climbers at low altitudes but were NEVER going to reach 40,000ft.

    US assessment of the Ki-84 which could very well be in error.

    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Ki-84-156A.pdf

    But service ceiling is where the climb has dropped to 100ft per minute.

    This is what killed even the Turbo P-47's climb to 40,000ft. the last 5,000ft took over 11 minutes and climb rate dropped from 900fpm to 100fpm even using military power.
     
  14. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    They tested the KI-84 against the P-51 and P-47 and found at (if I recall) 20,000 feet, the KI-84 was 2 mph faster than the P-51 and 22 mph faster than the P-47.

    The KI-84 was certainly a strong climber, solid performer and a deadly opponent. For some reason, people have an infatuation with the A6M and overlook the later types that Japan fielded.
     
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  15. stan reid

    stan reid Member

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    #15 stan reid, Sep 9, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
    Zeppelins had propellers as well. So I guess you mean first in a competition and not first in history.
     
  16. CommanderBounds

    CommanderBounds Active Member

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    I take that the aircraft keeps it max rate of climb the whole way up? If so the F8F Bearcat is a good contender even though it didn't see any combat (but I think it still counts though?). A lot of good contenders up for this one especially the Ta-152H1 which is matched by the XP-72 in terms of rate of climb but the XP-72 is only a prototype so it doesn't count. This is certainly a tough one...
     
  17. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

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    I thought the same but couldn't find any data in the short time I had so I picked the data for XIV just as you and you narrowly beat me in posting.

    Juha
     
  18. RCAFson

    RCAFson Well-Known Member

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    The F8F-1 SAC data indicates that it's service ceiling is about 38,000 ft.

    The F8F-2 SAC data gives a service ceiling of just 41,000 ft and I would estimate that the time to climb to 40k ft was 18.06 minutes (based upon average climb rate/minute).
     
  19. RCAFson

    RCAFson Well-Known Member

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    #19 RCAFson, Sep 9, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
    According to Price, in The Spitfire Story, the Mk VII, at 7990lb, could attain 40,000ft in 15.5 mins, when equipped with the Merlin 71, which was the standard engine on the MkVIII HF, and that it had a service ceiling of 45,100 ft. Price notes that the report doesn't state if the aircraft had the extended wingtips as per the Mk VIII HF.

    Morgan and Shaklady state that on 12 Aug 1942 a Mk VII HF attained 40,000ft in 14.9 mins at 7870lb.
     
  20. norab

    norab Well-Known Member

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    #20 norab, Sep 9, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
    Maybe the Supermarine Spiteful, Service ceiling: 42,000 ft (12,800 m)
    Rate of climb: 4,890 ft/min (24.8 m/s)
     
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