Reluctant Poster said:

I thought everyone would remember the iconic North American O-47A

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We're not allowed to teach historical American failures, except the Bell FM-2

swampyankee said:

We're not allowed to teach historical American failures

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It did lead to the more well known Fairey Barracuda.
Just fit Merlin engine, fold the wing and sling torpedo underneath

Just about everybody's "observation" planes of the late 30s were operational failures. Actual combat had changed a lot faster than the requirements. And in many Air Forces one airplane (due to budgets?) was being asked to do too many different missions. And often without support (fighter escort).

Wither they were flight failures (didn't fly well) or had structural problems may be a different story.

Shortround6 said:

It did lead to the more well known Fairey Barracuda.
Just fit Merlin engine, fold the wing and sling torpedo underneath

Just about everybody's "observation" planes of the late 30s were operational failures. Actual combat had changed a lot faster than the requirements. And in many Air Forces one airplane (due to budgets?) was being asked to do too many different missions. And often without support (fighter escort).

Wither they were flight failures (didn't fly well) or had structural problems may be a different story.

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Hi
I think the Westland Walrus (three-seater carrier-borne spotter reconnaissance bi-plane of the 1920s) trumps both:

(Source: 'Westland Aircraft since 1915' by Derek N James)
Mike

swampyankee said:

We're not allowed to teach historical American failures, except the Bell FM-2

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This one is allowed, too,

Everything is enclosed. USN loved that angled torpedo in 1934

Admiral Beez said:

Good points. IMO, the Gloster F5/34 suffered in prototype trials due to the Mercury engine they were obliged to use instead of the not ready Perseus. Stick a Kestrel onto the Spitfire prototype and see how it goes.

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Just like Willy did on the prototype BF109! Gimme more horses!

HP52 said:

Just like Willy did on the prototype BF109! Gimme more horses!

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I wonder if the folks at Daimler AG took apart the RR Kestrel and saw anything worthwhile. The Germans must have captured a few Merlins in 1939-40.

marathag said:

USN loved that angled torpedo in 1934

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The RAF did as well.



But not the FAA.

Admiral Beez said:

The RAF did as well.

View attachment 794759

But not the FAA.

View attachment 794760

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The FAA had developed this wire tensioning thing to cause the torpedo to belly-flop in order to be able to attack targets hiding in shallow harbors. So I guess this meant they didn't want the angled torpedo mounting?

z42 said:

The FAA had developed this wire tensioning thing to cause the torpedo to belly-flop in order to be able to attack targets hiding in shallow harbors. So I guess this meant they didn't want the angled torpedo mounting?

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This land-based Swordfish has an angled torpedo. Maybe the FAA did both ways?

Reluctant Poster said:

Lets not forget this beast

View attachment 793446
The last hurrah for this was at the attack on Pearl harbor when a couple were destroyed on the ground

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That beast was a very competent observation airplane and it did yeoman service along the Atlantic coast and the Caribbean looking for U-boats during the war. It only had a Wright R-1820 in it, but could cruise at 220 mph. So, while it was replace by L-4 / L-5 airplane in the ETO (rightly so), it helped the war effort along the coast.

I had the privilege of working to restore one for about 4 years. We are not finished and have moved on to another project (a C-47), but one day another O-47 will fly again. I especially like the observation window below the wing. It makes a GREAT airshow airplane as you can take 5 people along (3 up top and 2 in the belly) so you have some help when you get there!

Admiral Beez said:

This land-based Swordfish has an angled torpedo. Maybe the FAA did both ways?

View attachment 794761

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The caption for this reads:-

"

The Coastal Defence From The Air, A Torpedo Being Attached To A Fairey Swordfish In England During The Thirties

UNITED KINGDOM - JANUARY 01: The Coastal Defence From The Air, A Torpedo Being Attached To A Fairey Swordfish In England During Thirties (Photo by Keystone-France/Gamma-Keystone via Getty Images)"

The first production Swordfish was delivered in Feb 1936 with several early aircraft going to the Torpedo Training Squadron (later renamed the Torpedo Training Unit) at Gosport. That airfield had a number of Type A hangars of the design that appears in the background. The uniform aircraft colour is suggestive of pre-WW2 aluminium dope overall.

1936 also saw the introduction of a new 18" torpedo for dropping from aircraft, the Mark.XI (a successor to the Mk.VIII that had first entered service in 1914). Not many were built before an improved version, the Mk.XII, entered service in 1937 and became the main torpedo used by the RAF & the FAA during the first half of WW2. And that is the weapon that we are used to seeing in pictures of aircraft, including the Swordfish dating from WW2.

Earlier FAA torpedo bombers carried their torpedoes angled nose down e.g. the Blackburn Baffin in service from Jan 1934.

So I would surmise that this photo is of an early Swordfish with a Mk.VIII or Mk.XI torpedo rather than a Mk.XII. Now why the carrying angle needed to be changed I don't know.