Why are there only 2 Stukas left in tact today?

[esto]

Hi all. First post here, I hope I'm in the right place. My question is about the JU-87 Stuka. I'd been doing some research, and found that of the roughly 6,000 produced, there are only 2 remaining in tact (?!). One in a museum in Chicago, and another in the UK. What happend to the rest of them? Surely there must have been quite a few left after the war. Didn't anyone have the foresight to save more than 2 for historys sake?

Just wondering if anyone can give some insight to this. Thanks.

 

[Jank]

I imagine that you could ask the same question with respect to many of the most impactful machines of war of which only a few survive.

In that respect the post war state of surviving Stukas is quite typical.

Were there really only about 6,000 produced? I did not know that and thought the production figure would have been greater.

 

[Civettone]

5,800 IIRC.

I think your comment is right that it's really not so unnatural for only very few being left. When it comes to Russian aircraft, it's even worse.

Kris

 

[esto]

Actually, the official count I got was 6,513 JU-87's produced between 1935-44. But since I don't want to split hairs, it's easier to say a round number of 6,000

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They were scrapped. You dont think about things like that when you are trying to rebuild your country. Also the allies did not think about putting them in museums at the time either. It was about winning the war.

Here is a wreckage of a Stuka at a Museum near where I live here in Germany. Oh and that is not me in the first picture. That is some fat German dude.

 

[Negative Creep]

I'm sure a few years after the war the last thing people would want to see was the symbol of the Blitzkreig. It's like old cars, when they are useless you scrap them, you don't really think about what they'll be worth in 60 years time. Still, I agree it is a shame that so few WW2 aircraft of any type are still intact today

 

[Civettone]

Interesting point Adler. I always thought the Allies destroyed the German weapons after the war as the Germans weren't running their own country until the late fourties and early 50s. By then the weapons were already destroyed.

Then again. Perhaps a few wrecks and parts did remain in German dumps and scrap yards. Those would have been destroyed because the German government wanted to. Even today, German government is reluctant to keep anything which reminds the outside world of the nazi days. If you're a Luftwaffe enthousiast in Germany, you're easily considered to be a neo-nazi. Tsss...

Kris

 

[R-2800]

the BOB took out alot..... and who would want an old german dive bomber right after the war anyhow?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Interesting point Adler. I always thought the Allies destroyed the German weapons after the war as the Germans weren't running their own country until the late fourties and early 50s. By then the weapons were already destroyed.

Then again. Perhaps a few wrecks and parts did remain in German dumps and scrap yards. Those would have been destroyed because the German government wanted to. Even today, German government is reluctant to keep anything which reminds the outside world of the nazi days. If you're a Luftwaffe enthousiast in Germany, you're easily considered to be a neo-nazi. Tsss...

Kris

That is not really the case. You can go all over Germany and still see Luftwaffe aircraft and WW2 architecture. Hell I live about 30 minutes from the Nazi Rally Grounds in Nurnberg. they are still intack. The main swatzika has been blown off but there are still plenty of eagles still remaining all over the grounds.

I have never had a problem being a Luftwaffe enthusiast in Germany. I even collect the original uniforms and artifacts and never had a problem.

 

[Civettone]

But given how much stuff there was, it's surprising how much is lost. Just look at tanks: you'll find more German tanks in Russia than in Germany. I think much of the weapons in Germany today are results of finds in the last decades and of people hiding away stuff and donating or selling it afterwards. If you go to the Ardennes you'll see a whole bunch of German equipment and tanks which have been placed on display shortly after the war. Such a thing was unthinkable in Germany. Only after some years was it acceptable for the Germans to show these things. Until then they treated it as if it never existed.

And I didn't say you would have a problem with being a Luftwaffe enthusiast. You're not a German. And I'm not saying these people are being harrassed. There is just a lack of sympathy for them. And there's one thing which makes this clear: you'll find more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside Germany than inside. Most people in Germany don't like the subject and don't want to talk about it. They will if you ask them but there's always a sense of shame. I lived in Düsseldorf for some weeks and after a few days I stopped my enquiries towards people I met. That was quite a disappointment for me.

But perhaps you have different experiences with them. Can you start a conversation with Germans about the war as easily as you can in the US?
Kris

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

But given how much stuff there was, it's surprising how much is lost. Just look at tanks: you'll find more German tanks in Russia than in Germany. I think much of the weapons in Germany today are results of finds in the last decades and of people hiding away stuff and donating or selling it afterwards. If you go to the Ardennes you'll see a whole bunch of German equipment and tanks which have been placed on display shortly after the war. Such a thing was unthinkable in Germany. Only after some years was it acceptable for the Germans to show these things. Until then they treated it as if it never existed.

I think it comes down to more of the spoils of war. The allies took what they wanted and scrapped the reat.

And I didn't say you would have a problem with being a Luftwaffe enthusiast. You're not a German.

I was born and raised a German. My immediate family is German and I lived the majority of my life in Germany. Even had a German passport for a while.

And I'm not saying these people are being harrassed. There is just a lack of sympathy for them. And there's one thing which makes this clear: you'll find more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside Germany than inside. Most people in Germany don't like the subject and don't want to talk about it. They will if you ask them but there's always a sense of shame. I lived in Düsseldorf for some weeks and after a few days I stopped my enquiries towards people I met. That was quite a disappointment for me.

But perhaps you have different experiences with them. Can you start a conversation with Germans about the war as easily as you can in the US?
Kris

I honestly have never experienced that either. I have never had a problem talking with people about WW2. I think it is how you go about it and how you approach the person.

Many Germans do try avoiding the subject because 90 percent of it comes from drunk GI's stationed over here in Germany who throw out the "Germany is Evil and you lost the war, so speak English to me or die attitude!"

The big misconseption is that Germans tend to try and forget about the past. I dont know a single German who acts like it never happened, what they dont like is being blamed for what happened almost 70 years ago. They were not alive back then, it was not there fault. It should not be forgotten but they should not be blamed for there countries history.

 

[Civettone]

Sorry Adler, didn't know that. Do you feel more German than American?

In that case I fully agree that it's the way you handle it. Germans obviously saw me as a foreigner and probably felt they have to defend themselves.

Another argument which I forget about is that it very much depends on what you talk about. It's especially anything nazi or SS which is more difficult to talk about than the pure military affairs. But I still notice you have more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside of Germany than inside.

Kris

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

That is some fat German dude.

LOL!

Nice set piece of a wrecked stuka.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Sorry Adler, didn't know that. Do you feel more German than American?

I like to say that I am a German whos blood runs Red, White, and Blue!

Um no I really can not tell you. I am a Mutt. I am very very proud of my German Herritage but am also very proud of my American Herritage and citizenship.

I love both countries to death.

In that case I fully agree that it's the way you handle it. Germans obviously saw me as a foreigner and probably felt they have to defend themselves.

Another argument which I forget about is that it very much depends on what you talk about. It's especially anything nazi or SS which is more difficult to talk about than the pure military affairs.

I am not sure if he is alive or not but I will have to find out. My step mothers Uncle was SS and he enjoyed talking about his War experiences. If he is still around (I have not seen him in about 6 years) I can get you an address if you with so ask him questions.

Not sure if the SS is something you care to talk about. He has marvelous stories though.

But I still notice you have more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside of Germany than inside.

Kris

I do agree with on this...

 

[Rodger Dodger]

This is my first post. I'm damned glad I Googled "remaining stukas" and found this forum.

Well, I'm late to the dance on this thread, but have found reading the posts very interesting. I fortunately have gone flying in a WWII P-51D, which hooked me for life.

After WWII, all countries were scrapping their planes. The aluminum and other metals were more valuable than the planes, particularly since a the new generation fighter jets were beginning to dominate.

I understand there is only one Japenese zero that can fly left. Too bad there were no wealthy plane collectors after WWII, as I understand the planes were selling for the cost of their metal

 

[GrauGeist]

This is my first post. I'm damned glad I Googled "remaining stukas" and found this forum.

Welcome to the forums, lots of good people and always something interesting going on.

Well, I'm late to the dance on this thread, but have found reading the posts very interesting. I fortunately have gone flying in a WWII P-51D, which hooked me for life.

After WWII, all countries were scrapping their planes. The aluminum and other metals were more valuable than the planes, particularly since a the new generation fighter jets were beginning to dominate.

There were many reasons they scrapped the excess/obsolete/wrecked aircraft, but the value in metals was probably at the forefront.

Here's a recent thread that covers this discussion as well: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/what-happened-axis-planes-after-ww2-19167.html

I understand there is only one Japenese zero that can fly left. Too bad there were no wealthy plane collectors after WWII, as I understand the planes were selling for the cost of their metal

Actually, there's 6 Zeros, but only one that's 100% original, and that's the Zero at the Chino (California) Museum.

 

[timshatz]

Stuka was also the face of the Blitzkrieg. Add in a siren that scared the living bejusus out of anyone who heard it and you have an aircraft that was more than an aircraft, it represented the conquering of Europe by the Nazis. Too us on the forum, it might be nothing more than another dive bomber with a great rep. To those in Germany after WW2, both Allied and German, it represented much more than that.

Also, after the war, anything that could be melted down for the rebuilding of Germany was melted down. Swords into plows, that sort of thing. Same thing happened in the US to all those B17s, P40, P39s, ect. War was over and those things really had no place in the peacetime world.

 

[michaelmaltby]

I read somewhere that despite the 1,000s that were built there were never more than a few hundred Stukas in service at any given time - very high attrition rate.

MM

 

[imalko]

I'm not sure about exact numbers but I think that production rate of Stuka was quite low. Even at hight of production I don't think it exceeded 100 machines per month and it could be even less then that number (correct me if I'm wrong). That's one of the reasons why there were never more than a few hundred Stukas in service at any given time.

 

[Amsel]

That makes sense, imalko, due to the peak production of arms was 1944-45 and by that time it was obselete.