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The Seafire II/III were low altitude rated fighters with single stage, single speed SCs with 16-18lb boost at low altitude. The LIIC and LFIII had the Merlin 32/55m respectively so they had spectacular initial climb rates and good speed at low altitudes. IIRC, the plan when intercepting FW190s was to climb rapidly then attempt an intercept using speed accumulated in the dive. The Seafire XV/XVII had single stage, two speed griffons, with much better high altitude performance and the Seafire 47 two stage, two speed griffons with excellent high altitude performance and a service ceiling of about 40,000 ft.
Salerno was an American operation. Why was the RN responsible for air defense?At Salerno in 1943 the Seafires (they were LIIcs) were severely criticised for their inability to protect the beach head from incoming Fw 190s.
Salerno was an American operation. Why was the RN responsible for air defense?
Salerno was an American operation. Why was the RN responsible for air defense?
I've just read that Salerno was the scene of a rare mutiny involving British troops in WW2.
It would be much more graceful for you to admit you missed the reference to Triumph in my original post, which you pretty obviously did, rather than come up with some convoluted comeback like that to still try to say I was omitting something. Also I would repeat that it's common knowledge anyway AFAIC that the RN/RAN only used Colossus class carriers in Korea, and my post was in response to one about Seafire wrinkling *in Korea*. I think you've failed utterly to show that the post was either misleading or not completely relevant to the post I quoted in responding.Your post did not state that Triumph was a rather slow CVL, and is written so that it is not clear that Triumph was operating the Seafires in question rather than acting as a ferry to bring the surviving aircraft from Korea.
The fact is that all WW2 CV capable aircraft are more prone to landing damage if the CV or apparent wind is too slow, since it causes much greater strain on the aircraft hooks and LG.
I suspect British forces in the Aegean getting bombed to dust by Ju-87s and Ju-88s would have given a lot for the five Seafire squadrons operating from those CVEs.
I think you've failed utterly to show that the post was either misleading or not completely relevant to the post I quoted in responding.
Joe
OTOH "With the Carriers in Korea" by Landsdown is a day to day account of the RN carrier ops in Korea. The history of Seafire attrition in combat ops is as follows:
June 29: disembarks 4 over-wrinkled Seafires before entering combat, 12 remain available
July 18: 1 Seafire severely damaged in landing (one other became unserviceable of several incidents ments mentioned)
July 22: disembarks 2 unserviceable Seafires, takes on 7 from Unicorn, 17 available
July 24: 1 Seafire written off to wrinkling, one to fuselage damage from mishandling by deck crew
July 28: Seafire shot down by B-29's, 14 available
Aug 9: Seafire written off to off-center landing, 13 available
Aug 23: 2 more Seafires exceed wrinkling limit and another overstressed by off center landing, says 9 available but this seems a typo for 10
Aug 26: Seafire written off in landing practice, 9 available
Aug 30: embarks Unicorn's last 6 Seafires
Sep 4: Seafire badly damaged in takeoff accident, lands but unserviceable
Sep 8: Seafires written off in landing accident, pilot bailed out of another when arrestor hook wouldn't extend, 10 serviceable (seems 2 others not mentioned)
Sep 9: 4 Seafires exceed wrinkling limit
Sep 14: Seafire written off in heavy landing
Sep 20: 3 Seafires operational (thus 2 others are not mentioned)
Triumph set sail for home with 3 Seafires and 8 Fireflies remaining operational.
On 21st July, Triumph sailed for Sasebo, due to deterioration of the packing in the Starboard stern gland, and arrived the next morning. Here, Triumph replaced damaged aircraft, bringing her Seafire complement to 17, four below complement, and reprovisioned. Triumph and Comus, who had accompanied her back to port, sailed on 25th July, to provide close support for the endangered US 8th Army, and the South Korean Army, who were in danger of being encircled and overrun. Triumph flew 28 CAP sorties, during the day, and moved to the East coast on 26th July, flying Anti-Submarine and CAP sorties again.
Triumph entered Sasebo on 21st September, where she entered drydock, for two days of temporary repairs to her starboard stern gland. Triumph sailed for Hong Kong on 25th September 1950.
HMS Triumph
Korean War Service
Post war, the Fleet Air Arm replaced its Merlin-powered Seafires with Griffon-powered aircraft, initially with the Seafire Mk. XV and Mk. XVII, and from 1948, by the definitive Seafire Mk. 47. In 1950, HMS Triumph began a tour of the Far East, embarking 800 Naval Air Squadron with Seafire Mk. 47s along with 827 Naval Air Squadron, equipped with Fairey Fireflies. Following the outbreak of the Korean War, HMS Triumph was diverted to interdiction operations to try and stem the North Korean offensive, and her Seafires flew both ground attack and combat air patrol missions from July until September 1950, when Triumph was replaced on station by HMS Theseus, equipped with Sea Furies. During operations off Korea, Seafires flew 360 operational sorties, losing one aircraft shot down by friendly fire from a B-29 Superfortress and a second aircraft lost when its arrestor hook failed to extend. The Seafire, however, proved more vulnerable to the stresses of carrier operation with many aircraft suffering wrinkling of the rear fuselage brought about by heavy landings. Following the end of operations, when peacetime airworthiness rules were re-imposed, all but three of 800 Squadron's Seafires were declared unserviciable owing to wrinkling.
https://hangar47.com/Supermarine_Seafire_XV.html
Due to succession of heavy landings caused by bad weather and tiredness some of the fuselage wrinkles on the Seafires were becoming a bit too large for comfort so the worst of the affected aircraft were withdrawn and used for spares...
On the 30th of August HMS Triumph returned to Sasebo in Japan to replenish stores and recieve the last 6 seafires and 8 fireflys from HMS Unicorn, which were the least serviceable of of all the replacements and as such had been held back until now for that reason...
http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/Article_Forgotten_Cruise.htm
August 1943 the British started preparations to take quickly advantage of a possible Italian-German split, in the form of a scaled-down "Accolade".