Why was P-36 so successful in the battle of France?

[GrauGeist]

All this is mastered with training and religious use of checklists.

Amen.

As a side note, I know there isn't really an emergency checklist for drivers, but the crash scene investigators looking at my car after I was extracted, discovered the ignition switched off, headlights switched off, an attempt made to shift into park and even E-brake applied.

I don't recall doing any of this - actually I recall nothing between the moment I saw a Buick emblem in my headlight beam and faces looking down at me in ER.

So all that must have been a reflex from all those years of flying and constantly going over the emergency checklist.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

It depends a lot on the aircraft, but I think you are underestimating a little, how many things you are dealing with in some of those WW2 fighters or bombers.

Obviously it does but I've been around a lot of WW2 aircraft (and maintained a few) and for the most part they are pretty straight up operationally, especially if they retained simple navigation equipment.

There is a reason why they pre-select for certain types of personality traits and abilities for fighter pilots before they even get to training...

True

 

[Reluctant Poster]

Definitely agree on checklists. It's similar in the medical field.


It depends a lot on the aircraft, but I think you are underestimating a little, how many things you are dealing with in some of those WW2 fighters or bombers.



There is a reason why they pre-select for certain types of personality traits and abilities for fighter pilots before they even get to training...

Including height. Fighter pilots tended to be shorter than bomber pilots.

 

[elbmc1969]

Amen.

As a side note, I know there isn't really an emergency checklist for drivers, but the crash scene investigators looking at my car after I was extracted, discovered the ignition switched off, headlights switched off, an attempt made to shift into park and even E-brake applied.

I don't recall doing any of this - actually I recall nothing between the moment I saw a Buick emblem in my headlight beam and faces looking down at me in ER.

So all that must have been a reflex from all those years of flying and constantly going over the emergency checklist.

My grandfather-in-law had Alzheimer's and kept asking where we were going during the 20 minute drive from his home to the Palm Springs airport. Once there, he was able to explain the takeoff checklist for the P-38 that was there for a special display.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Most of this is on the checklist, but to me it seems like a lot compared to dealing with a simpler, modern aircraft



Lock tailwheel
Hydraulics hand pump (unlock, hand pump till firm, check and lock)
Pump up brakes
Right rudder trim setting for takeoff
Prop setting
fuel tank setting
Prop select switch to auto
Manual fuel pump switch
Manual engine prime (two pumps and leave out)

-----------
Startup
-----------

Oil temp and coolant temp check before run up
Mixture (more complex throttle)
Pump up brakes again
Cycle prop once
Check mags
Check direct pitch control
Short runup to avoid overheating
Boost pump

-----------
Takeoff
-----------

Radiator shutters
Throttle adjustment
Stop wheels
Activate hydraulic pump on stick for gear
Compensate for yaw dude to gear

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Most of this is on the checklist, but to me it seems like a lot compared to dealing with a simpler, modern aircraft



Lock tailwheel
Hydraulics hand pump (unlock, hand pump till firm, check and lock)
Pump up brakes
Right rudder trim setting for takeoff
Prop setting
fuel tank setting
Prop select switch to auto
Manual fuel pump switch
Manual engine prime (two pumps and leave out)

-----------
Startup
-----------

Oil temp and coolant temp check before run up
Mixture (more complex throttle)
Pump up brakes again
Cycle prop once
Check mags
Check direct pitch control
Short runup to avoid overheating
Boost pump

-----------
Takeoff
-----------

Radiator shutters
Throttle adjustment
Stop wheels
Activate hydraulic pump on stick for gear
Compensate for yaw dude to gear

Not at all - I don't know how much flying experience you have but that's not a very large checklist. This is for a Cessna 182RG. I didn't include short or soft field take-off.

And what do you mean by "Mixture (more complex throttle)"????

 

[FLYBOYJ]

And here's one for a "simpler" C 172

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Well you don't have retractable landing gear, you don't have to set rudder trim for takeoff (or deal with so much torque), you don't have so many manual systems.

You do have a few more electronic, communication and navigation systems to worry about.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Well you don't have retractable landing gear, you don't have to set rudder trim for takeoff (or deal with so much torque), you don't have so many manual systems.

You do on a C182RG, go look at the first checklist, that's why I posted it

You do have a few more electronic, communication and navigation systems to worry about.

Yes - bottom line, there isn't much to the P-40. "Systems wise" when compared to something like a C182RG, it's not all that complicated and the biggest thing one would have to master is the extra power (torque) and speed of the aircraft. A C172 still has some amplified items when compared what was used on a P-40 which is in a whole different class of aircraft (high performance, complex)

So again, what do you mean by "Mixture (more complex throttle)"??

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Don't the older / earlier WW2 fighters have separate prop pitch, throttle, mixture and boost? I've read that they switched to automatic boost control in the P-40 with the later models.

Does a Lycoming O-360 even have a supercharger?

The (very basic) Cessna 172 I flew had fixed pitch, not constant speed or manual override. I don't remember dealing with the pitch.

 

[GrauGeist]

Aircraft, unlike automobiles, still have a "hands-on" approach to operation.

WWII aircraft had a few features that modern civil aircraft don't (and vice-versa), but by and large, still have comparable proceedures.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Don't the older / earlier WW2 fighters have separate prop pitch, throttle, mixture and boost? I've read that they switched to automatic boost control in the P-40 with the later models.

They do, as do today's GA aircraft that have constant speed props and in some cases turbos (C210T for example).

Does a Lycoming O-360 even have a supercharger?

TIO-360 Lycoming TIO-360 Aircraft Engines

The (very basic) Cessna 172 I flew had fixed pitch, not constant speed or manual override. I don't remember dealing with the pitch.

Most 172s have fixed props, there are versions that have constant speed props, (172SP)

 

[SaparotRob]

Okay, is it "switch off. Contact". Or is it "switch on. Contact" then hand throw the prop?

 

[GrauGeist]

Okay, is it "switch off. Contact". Or is it "switch on. Contact" then hand throw the prop?

If you're trying to kill the guy on the ground from exhaustion, it's "switch off".

Otherwise, "switch on" (because you want the engine to start).

 

[SaparotRob]

I had seen some tv shows with biplanes many decades ago. I had noticed on one scene of a show "switch off contact" and "switch on contact " on another. Never followed up since I wasn't interested in that era. The former made no sense to me.
In an unrelated topic, could one get away with homicide going with the former?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Getting back on subject, found this today.

 

[SaparotRob]

I liked the cameo at the end.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

That was pretty cool! So when were the first P-40's supposed to show up in France? Couldn't have been that late as the British had some in the middle east by the summer right?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

That was pretty cool! So when were the first P-40's supposed to show up in France? Couldn't have been that late as the British had some in the middle east by the summer right?

According to Joe B, May 1940 Joe Baugher's Curtiss P-40 Tomahawk files

 

[MikeMeech]

That was pretty cool! So when were the first P-40's supposed to show up in France? Couldn't have been that late as the British had some in the middle east by the summer right?

Hi
In the Middle East the P-40 (Tomahawk) fully equipped No. 112 Sqn. (replacing Gladiators) in June 1941. In Britain the first squadron equipped was No. 26 in February 1941. When the British took over the French contract for P-40s in June 1940 I believe only one had flown.

Mike