World Ace List and Other Data

Denniss said:

any chance for a DMCA takedown notice to its US hoster? Or to Google that may help to reduce ranking?

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I don't really know how to do that. The thing is, data in WWII should be public knowledge. I suppose, in a way, it is. But you have to go find it out. I did ... to an extent. I also used data from two websites that I tried my best to contact for more than 15 years to no avail. Eventually, after more than a decade and a half, I shared the data and the files I put it into. So, perhaps I am guilty of the same infraction. But my files credit the data from the sources, although I didn't mention the effort by me that went into supplementing the data I found.

I'm chalking it up to "the internet" and am not spending any more anger or effort on fuming about it. I shall continue to share with the forum as it seems right to do so. Hopefully the Excel file above gives many a lookup for questions about aerial victories, and they can then research from there if more detail is wanted. At least, it gives someone a starting point from which to work.

Cheers to all.

GregP said:

I don't really know how to do that. The thing is, data in WWII should be public knowledge. I suppose, in a way, it is. But you have to go find it out. I did ... to an extent. I also used data from two websites that I tried my best to contact for more than 15 years to no avail. Eventually, after more than a decade and a half, I shared the data and the files I put it into. So, perhaps I am guilty of the same infraction. But my files credit the data from the sources, although I didn't mention the effort by me that went into supplementing the data I found.

I'm chalking it up to "the internet" and am not spending any more anger or effort on fuming about it. I shall continue to share with the forum as it seems right to do so. Hopefully the Excel file above gives many a lookup for questions about aerial victories, and they can then research from there if more detail is wanted. At least, it gives someone a starting point from which to work.

Cheers to all.

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When the great old ones emerge from the deep to retake the planets surface, the people who stole data to falsely raise the status of their website without attribution will be eaten first.

Those who correctly attributed and did real research, will be allowed to continue as their subjects, after all - whats the point in laying waste to a world if it is not correctly logged and recorded to bring terror to future generations.

One of my other hobbies is maintaining and restoring old Gravely Tractors. One person had spent time building a website with hundreds of manuals. Someone mirrored the site, and all the manuals. Sad.

Hey Mods!

Can someone change the title to "World Ace List" so people might actually know what is in the thread?

Or should I start a new thread with the data and avoid the whining about data theft?

GregP said:

Hey Mods!

Can someone change the title to "World Ace List" so people might actually know what is in the thread?

Or should I start a new thread with the data and avoid the whining about data theft?

Click to expand...

You can do that yourself by editing your first post.

Snautzer01 said:

You can do that yourself by editing your first post.

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Thanks, Snautzer01! I appreciate the answer. Cheers.

GregP : just one small correction on your Excel list
On Italian pilots the # 69 Adriano Visconti is accounted with 6 victories
They were actually 10 : 6 while fighting for Regia + 4 in the ANR
For long time the 'official' numbers were not consideing the ANR service

Hello Greg,

I'll try to find a document that was sent to me by the ASHAA (Archives du Service Historique de l'Armée de l'Air) a few years ago. It includes a precise and official list of victories of French pilots (individual and shared). I will try to find it in order to refine your document.

Parmigiano said:

GregP : just one small correction on your Excel list
On Italian pilots the # 69 Adriano Visconti is accounted with 6 victories
They were actually 10 : 6 while fighting for Regia + 4 in the ANR
For long time the 'official' numbers were not consideing the ANR service

Click to expand...

Thanks, Parmigiano!

le_steph40 said:

Hello Greg,

I'll try to find a document that was sent to me by the ASHAA (Archives du Service Historique de l'Armée de l'Air) a few years ago. It includes a precise and official list of victories of French pilots (individual and shared). I will try to find it in order to refine your document.

Click to expand...

I'd surely appreciate that. Thanks you in advance.

Hello,

Here are some precisions regarding French Aces => v=victory, s=shared, p=probable, ps=probable shared. Only aerial victories are given here (the damaged and destroyed on ground are not counted). In the French Armée de l'Air there is no difference between individual victories and shared victories; and it's a problem...
- Edmond Marin La Meslée: 4v, 12s, 2p, 2ps
- Jean Demozay (not Jean-françois) : counting AA: 21v, 2p, counting RAF: 19v, 2p.
- Michel Dorance: 3v, 11s, 2p, 2ps
- Camille Plubeau: 8v, 6s, 4p
- Jean (or Jean-Mary) Accart: 12s, 1p, 3ps
- Marcel Rouquette: 1v, 9s, 3p, 3ps
- Léon Vuillemain: 2v, 9s, 1p, 3ps
- Georges Baptizet: 2v, 7s, 2p, 2ps
- Pierre Le Gloan: Armée de l'Air: 3v, 8s, 1p; Armée de l'Air de Vichy (AAA/Vichy Air Force): 5v, 2s, 1p
- Edouard le Nigen: 4v, 8s, 1ps

Sources: SHAA, Avions magazine, Aces magazine, Aces High by C. Shores & C. Williams.
I don't know if I'll have the time for all the French pilots but I'll do my best...

OK, I have another work in progress to share.

This one is all about aircraft production during WWII. It's not complete yet, but has a LOT of data in it.

For those of you not familiar with Excel, Control-Page Up and Control Page-Down moves you forward and backward through the tabs.

Cheers.

GregP said:

OK, I have another work in progress to share.

This one is all about aircraft production during WWII. It's not complete yet, but has a LOT of data in it.

For those of you not familiar with Excel, Control-Page Up and Control Page-Down moves you forward and backward through the tabs.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

If you felt so inclined, I could probably help you significantly expand your "engine production" tab...

I would add, that your work on that data collation, has produced a source of a highly significant historical importance, people
have done history degrees and produced less of value.

I would consider, should you expand on it further, to be careful about putting it online free for all, lazy types on TV channels (and
even lazier types on YouTube), will probably use it to help check documentaries and you`ll be lucky to recieve so much as a "that was useful" email from them.

Hi Calum,

I am so inclined. Thank you for the advice, I deleted the file. More data is good. I am doing this because I'm interested, not necessarily to publication. My favorite tab is "USAAF Procurement 1" since it tells us how many and what the changes were as the variant changed. Wish I had that for the other-than-U.S. aircraft, too. Might be good to work on.

If there are people in here who want that file and are in good standing with me, I'll PM it if you request and agree not to publish or pass it on to others electronically or in print. My entire intent was to collect data on WWII aircraft because I have serious interest in them and help restore them two days a week.

Tell you what, Calum, I'll send a few files to you via PM. If they are interesting, I'd love any data you would provide.

Best regards, - Greg

The following references should cover what you are after.

Britain: UK Statistical Digest of the War, also called Fighting with Figures, appendix 4 of British War Production by H M Postan, monthly production January 1938 to December 1944. National Archives file AIR 19/524, AIR 8/278, AVIA 46/146, AVIA 10/315, AVIA 49/229.

Royal Air Force Contract Cards and Delivery Logs.

Air Historical Branch/Archives. The Ministry of Aircraft Production (MAP) monthly Statistical Bulletin. The Ministry of Supply Monthly Statistical Bulletin.

The National Aerospace Library at Farnborough. Rate of attainment of peak output after first delivery, report no 5. 11/313.

United States. USAAF/USAF Statistical Digests.

U.S. National Archives RG (Record Group) 72 Entry 153 Boxes 1 and 2 USN Acceptances, RG 18 box 750 central decimal files 452.1 AAF Aircraft receipts 1939. RG 149B Entry C2743, U.S. Military Aircraft Acceptances 1940 - 1945 Aircraft, Engine and Propeller Production, U.S. Department of Commerce, Civil Aeronautics Administration. RG 179 Entry 1 Boxes 1086, 1087, 1089, 1092, 1094, 1096 and 1097, War Production Board Aircraft Reports, various months July 1940 to July 1945. RG 179 Entry 249B Box 719, Bulky central decimal files 452.1, Air Technical Services Command Special Historical Report of Airframe Weight 1940 to 1944.

AFHRA 218.8-2, Special Quarterly War Department Report on Airplanes, Material Division, Field Service Section, Wright Field, Dayton Ohio, Q1/1935 to Q4/1939. AFHRA 218.5, Materials Division, Operations Report on Airplanes, 1935 to 1939. AFHRA 134.23-8, Monthly US Aircraft Factory Acceptances and Deliveries, April to July 1943. AFHRA 134.23-16, Monthly US Aircraft Factory Acceptances and Deliveries.

USAF Material Command. Airplane and Glider Acceptances, Factory Deliveries and Departures from U.S, by type model and country, January 1940 - December 1942 inclusive. WS-301A/RC-301 (monthly reports).

Civil aviation figures and pre war military aircraft for export, the Aircraft Year Book by the Aeronautical Chamber of Commerce of America Inc (1936 to 1942) (Smithsonian Air and Space Museum Library, Washington). Statistical Handbook of Civil Aviation, U.S. Department of Commerce, Civil Aeronautics Administration, Washington D.C., December 1950 (Monthly figures 1945 to 1949) (US National Archives, College Park, Library). Department of Commerce, Supplement to the Survey of Current Business, 1936, 1938, 1940 and 1942, Statistical Supplement to the Survey of Current Business, 1947 and 1949, Business Statistics Statistical Supplement to the Survey of Current Business, 1951 and 1953.

Canada, Official munitions production of the United States by Months, July 1 1940 to August 31 1945, on microfilm 47369, Library of Congress, HD9743.U6 A58. (War Production Board Report). Also online.

Canadian National Archives, RG 24 Volume 5394 Monthly production report May 1944 to July 1946, RG 28 Volume 15 Aircraft Production History, RG 28 Volume 73 Aircraft Production Organisation, RG 28A Volume 39 Production reports July to December 1942, January to August and October and November 1943. Quarterly reports for Q2 and Q3 1942, Q1 and Q2 1943. Record Group 28 Volume 15. RAF Air Historical Branch, MAP Statistical bulletin March 1942 to September 1945 . British Archives AVIA 38/1029. Australian Archives. Series A1695 Control 3/101/Tech (3 parts), part 2, Canadian Aircraft Production March to September 1943, part 3, Canadian Aircraft Production September 1943 to August 1944 (available on the archives web site as an imaged document).

Australia: Australian Archives, Series A5954 control 225/5 Aircraft Production Report 1945, Series A5954 control 227/5, Aircraft Production Report, Beaufighter and Beaufort to August 1945 (it also includes cables of monthly production sent to the UK, US and Canada, mostly in 1942 and 1943). Series MP287/1 control 232, Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation Monthly Aircraft Production Reports. Series MP287/1 control 685, Monthly Aircraft Production Reports April 1941 to February 1943. Series MP287/1 control 685/1, Monthly Aircraft Production Reports March 1944 To May 1946. Series MP287/1 control 685/2, Monthly Aircraft Production Reports, June 1946 to August 1949. Series MP287/1 control 685/2A, Monthly Aircraft Production Reports September 1949 to March 1952. Series MP287/1 control 1186, Monthly Aircraft Production Reports, 1939 to 1941. Series MP450/1 control 83, Aircraft Production 1943. Series MP450/1 control 182, Monthly Aircraft Production Reports for 1939 to 1943.

Result, English speaking countries aircraft monthly production figures by factory, make and model, 1935 to 1949. Also engine production but not to the same detail. Factory names as per reports, Fairey can be Stockport or Errwood Park

If you look on wwiiaircrtaftperformance, you can find the power curves for the V1650-3 and V-1650-7 easily (near the top of the first screen). See below:


They aren't simple to read. The Merlin V-1650-3 and -7 are 2-stage engines and have a definite dogtooth shape. In the pic above, the dashed line is the -3 engine and the solid line is the -7 engine. If you look at the lowest curve (for 61" MAP), it starts at zero altitude and 1,390 horsepower and goes up to about 19,250 feet and about 1,520 horsepower, assuming ram air. If you are not using ram air, it breaks at about 13,800 feet and 1,490 horsepower.

In the Merlin-power P-51, carburetor air normally comes from an air scoop under the spinner. The air comes into the scoop under the pressure of forward airspeed and is called ram pressure, or ram air. In normal operations, the Merlin-powered P-51 always uses Ram air unless the scoop gets plugged somehow. If so, an alternate-air door opens automatically to admit non-ram air. If you are running on non-ram air, it is only because something has plugged up the normal carburetor air scoop.

Anyway, I am in the middle of formulating equations for these power curves and have completed the V-1650-3 engine.

An Excel spreadsheet is attached below with the V-1650-3 filled in. I'll get the V-1650-7 curves done within a week or two.

Cheers.

Thanks Geoffrey SInclair! I appreciate the information.