WW2 Fantasy Aircraft (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Howard Gibson
- Start date
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Being slow in the uptake , I just realized my fantasy WW II plane was built. The XB-38
The Rules
- service - Kriegsmarine Marineflieger, Magyar Királyi Honvéd Légierő, export to Yugoslavia, Sweden, Finland
- start of designing ATL variant in 1937 production 1939
- resources - instead OTL Re 2000/Heja and import
- everything else - story
Marineflieger lead the way pt2
Heinkels Marineflieger Große Raubmöwe and Danube Héja
Heinkel never came to terms with his He 112 losing the Luftwaffe standard fighter order to Messerschmitt. And so during 1936/7, Heikel's team constantly worked on improving the basic structure (up to the significantly refined He 112B variant) and (with the blessing of the RLM) on export. All this did not result in orders from RLM or any export contracts.
At the same time, Project 1035, which will result in the He 100, was developed in Heikel's design bureau, because Walter Günter, one half of the famous Günter brothers, concluded that the He 112 with the Jumo 210 came from the end of the possible development.
It seemed that the He 112 would fall into oblivion. However, as it usually happens, a couple of things came together and the He 112 suddenly had a bright future.
First, the Marineflieger Command was looking for a new modern fighter for its aircraft carriers. Their first problem was the engine (as in the case of the Bf 162), the impossibility of getting DB 600/601 engines, the second sufficiently strong Junkers Jumo 211A was still a "bomber" with a slightly worse compressor and less power, and without the possibility of short-term overload. However, as Junkers practically lost the market for the Jumo 210 (because the 14-cylinder radial Bramo proved to be better than the Jumo 210 for the Bf 109 fighter - but that's another story) they shifted the focus of development to the 211 and very quickly the Jumo 211AJ variant appeared (i.e. variant for fighter aircraft). As Walter survived a close call in a car accident (I guess karma because of Rader) and continued to work on the future He 100, Siegfried took over the development of the He 112C - the naval model. The difference from the He 112B model was of course significant the more powerful Jumo 211AJ and larger wings (from the He 112A model), and of course the catapult fittings and the arresting hook. However, the biggest difference was under the skin.
All technological improvements to simplify and speed up production (such as explosive rivets) from the He 100 project have been applied.
Second problem ie production was also resolved because during that early 1937, the negotiations with the Hungarian delegation were successfully completed, albeit in secret, because Hungary was still under sanctions and for them was forbidden to have military aviation. But Hungarians were looking for fighter plane. As that restriction was lifted (earlier than OTL - because slight earlier German example) and He 112C prototypes proved to be significantly better than the Italian Re 2000 ( not to mention other biplanes). And the economic part of the offer was also irresistible. Heinkel and Junkers will participate in the construction of engine and aircraft factories in Hungary without compensation or licence fees in exchange for part of the production (OTL that was done significantly (to) late with Me 109G and DB 605).
The land variant He 112D got a smaller wing (from the B model) for higher maximum speed at the expense of maneuverability. Limited production (mainly naval variants) was until the end of 1938 in Heinkel's plants, and from the spring of 1939, complete production for both Germany and Hungary was in Budapest. And as international orders were also coming in (Yugoslavia 120 and Sweden 160, even Finland with 60), production was projected at as many as 75 aircraft per month. By the beginning of WW2, all three light aircraft carriers of the Kriegsmarine* were equipped with the new Heikel fighters. Later variants, the He 112E (naval) and the He 112F with the significantly more powerful Jumo 211JJ (the counterpart to the regular OTL J) were produced until 1943 when they became obsolete (at least in the West). The Hungarian Weiss Manfréd (who took over production) also developed a variant with radial K14 and later N14 (after the fall of France) engines and with a simplified wooden structure that was successfully used as a fighter-bomber. In terms of production in ww2 (including 550 for Hungary, 330 for export and about 900 for the Kriegsmarine - most of which were used on land), the He 112 is not huge, but its role at the beginning of the war for Germany was significant.
In addition to the direct support of the fleet, they participated in all the campaigns led by Germany until 1943, from the conquest of Denmark and Norway and the Battle of Britain (from bases in Norway) to the campaigns in the north of Finland, the Baltic and the Mediterranean.
In addition, the He 112 was a mainstay of Hungary fighter aviation, and it's service in Finland is memorable.
The He 112 is also remembered as the first plane with modular weapons. On each carrier or slightly better equipped base, the armament could be changed from 7x7.9mm (2x cowling 1x engine shaft and two in each wing) to a maximum of 3x20mm MG FFG (with 95 shells per drum) and two 7.9mm in cowling. Or any other lighter combinations. There was also a U1 variant with a stronger 30 mm cannon in the fuselage and usually only 2x7.9mm in the wings, this variant was increasingly common after 1941 and was used on planes that met the small Allied PT boats in the Mediterranean or in support of ground troops.
* German light carriers
As the Kriegsmarine was stopped in the second series of pocket battleships in 1932 with the Anglo German Naval Agreement, they found themselves in the position of having 3 hulls on the slipways, and after the proposal to convert them into heavy cruisers, Kriegsmarine decided ( convinced by personnel trained in the USSR and Japan) to convert them into 3x 15,000 tons light carriers. Equipped with diesel engines and with a capacity of up to 37 planes, they were a perfect match for the 3 original Panzerschiffe. Acting as a pair - a light carrier and a pocket battleship - they created chaos in shipping lanes all the way to the Indian Ocean.
Of course, all three groups were caught and sunk by the end of 1941, but some historians claim that the British disaster in Egypt and the Middle East and later in Southeast Asia and the long-term and bloody liberation of North Africa would not have been necessary if the RN had not had to protect the sea lanes by withdrawing most of the fleet from the Mediterranean.
Now no more writing, I owe too many pictures.
- service - Kriegsmarine Marineflieger, Magyar Királyi Honvéd Légierő, export to Yugoslavia, Sweden, Finland
- start of designing ATL variant in 1937 production 1939
- resources - instead OTL Re 2000/Heja and import
- everything else - story
Marineflieger lead the way pt2
Heinkels Marineflieger Große Raubmöwe and Danube Héja
Heinkel never came to terms with his He 112 losing the Luftwaffe standard fighter order to Messerschmitt. And so during 1936/7, Heikel's team constantly worked on improving the basic structure (up to the significantly refined He 112B variant) and (with the blessing of the RLM) on export. All this did not result in orders from RLM or any export contracts.
At the same time, Project 1035, which will result in the He 100, was developed in Heikel's design bureau, because Walter Günter, one half of the famous Günter brothers, concluded that the He 112 with the Jumo 210 came from the end of the possible development.
It seemed that the He 112 would fall into oblivion. However, as it usually happens, a couple of things came together and the He 112 suddenly had a bright future.
First, the Marineflieger Command was looking for a new modern fighter for its aircraft carriers. Their first problem was the engine (as in the case of the Bf 162), the impossibility of getting DB 600/601 engines, the second sufficiently strong Junkers Jumo 211A was still a "bomber" with a slightly worse compressor and less power, and without the possibility of short-term overload. However, as Junkers practically lost the market for the Jumo 210 (because the 14-cylinder radial Bramo proved to be better than the Jumo 210 for the Bf 109 fighter - but that's another story) they shifted the focus of development to the 211 and very quickly the Jumo 211AJ variant appeared (i.e. variant for fighter aircraft). As Walter survived a close call in a car accident (I guess karma because of Rader) and continued to work on the future He 100, Siegfried took over the development of the He 112C - the naval model. The difference from the He 112B model was of course significant the more powerful Jumo 211AJ and larger wings (from the He 112A model), and of course the catapult fittings and the arresting hook. However, the biggest difference was under the skin.
All technological improvements to simplify and speed up production (such as explosive rivets) from the He 100 project have been applied.
Second problem ie production was also resolved because during that early 1937, the negotiations with the Hungarian delegation were successfully completed, albeit in secret, because Hungary was still under sanctions and for them was forbidden to have military aviation. But Hungarians were looking for fighter plane. As that restriction was lifted (earlier than OTL - because slight earlier German example) and He 112C prototypes proved to be significantly better than the Italian Re 2000 ( not to mention other biplanes). And the economic part of the offer was also irresistible. Heinkel and Junkers will participate in the construction of engine and aircraft factories in Hungary without compensation or licence fees in exchange for part of the production (OTL that was done significantly (to) late with Me 109G and DB 605).
The land variant He 112D got a smaller wing (from the B model) for higher maximum speed at the expense of maneuverability. Limited production (mainly naval variants) was until the end of 1938 in Heinkel's plants, and from the spring of 1939, complete production for both Germany and Hungary was in Budapest. And as international orders were also coming in (Yugoslavia 120 and Sweden 160, even Finland with 60), production was projected at as many as 75 aircraft per month. By the beginning of WW2, all three light aircraft carriers of the Kriegsmarine* were equipped with the new Heikel fighters. Later variants, the He 112E (naval) and the He 112F with the significantly more powerful Jumo 211JJ (the counterpart to the regular OTL J) were produced until 1943 when they became obsolete (at least in the West). The Hungarian Weiss Manfréd (who took over production) also developed a variant with radial K14 and later N14 (after the fall of France) engines and with a simplified wooden structure that was successfully used as a fighter-bomber. In terms of production in ww2 (including 550 for Hungary, 330 for export and about 900 for the Kriegsmarine - most of which were used on land), the He 112 is not huge, but its role at the beginning of the war for Germany was significant.
In addition to the direct support of the fleet, they participated in all the campaigns led by Germany until 1943, from the conquest of Denmark and Norway and the Battle of Britain (from bases in Norway) to the campaigns in the north of Finland, the Baltic and the Mediterranean.
In addition, the He 112 was a mainstay of Hungary fighter aviation, and it's service in Finland is memorable.
The He 112 is also remembered as the first plane with modular weapons. On each carrier or slightly better equipped base, the armament could be changed from 7x7.9mm (2x cowling 1x engine shaft and two in each wing) to a maximum of 3x20mm MG FFG (with 95 shells per drum) and two 7.9mm in cowling. Or any other lighter combinations. There was also a U1 variant with a stronger 30 mm cannon in the fuselage and usually only 2x7.9mm in the wings, this variant was increasingly common after 1941 and was used on planes that met the small Allied PT boats in the Mediterranean or in support of ground troops.
* German light carriers
As the Kriegsmarine was stopped in the second series of pocket battleships in 1932 with the Anglo German Naval Agreement, they found themselves in the position of having 3 hulls on the slipways, and after the proposal to convert them into heavy cruisers, Kriegsmarine decided ( convinced by personnel trained in the USSR and Japan) to convert them into 3x 15,000 tons light carriers. Equipped with diesel engines and with a capacity of up to 37 planes, they were a perfect match for the 3 original Panzerschiffe. Acting as a pair - a light carrier and a pocket battleship - they created chaos in shipping lanes all the way to the Indian Ocean.
Of course, all three groups were caught and sunk by the end of 1941, but some historians claim that the British disaster in Egypt and the Middle East and later in Southeast Asia and the long-term and bloody liberation of North Africa would not have been necessary if the RN had not had to protect the sea lanes by withdrawing most of the fleet from the Mediterranean.
Now no more writing, I owe too many pictures.
The Fairey Monarch could have worked, one of the few instances where a twin block setup worked well, unlike every other H or Twin block tried during the War. Real missed opportunity for 1800-2000HP early in the War
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I've never claimed to be an aviation expert but I never heard of this engine before.
It looks pretty neat.
- Germany, LW (and possibly KM)
- 1938 as the start, in service in 1941
- Good
- MTT; BMW 801
- Good x2
- The Bf 109X with the set of wings from the Bf 109T. Let's say that Fw has it's plate full with the Fw 187, there is no Bf 110 as a fighter in service, and the Do 217 is the only aircraft powered with the BMW 801, leaving a good number of engines free. MTT makes the 109X as described. Four cannons, 485L of internal fuel + the drop tank, main wheel track at ~2.5m vs. ~2m for the DB-powered versions. Also a better cockpit than the 109. Praised for it's good/great performance, stable stance during the take-off and landing, good visibility and heavy firepower, with the temperamental engine being the only source of problems worth speaking about.
- (a bash between the drawings of the 109X and 109T from Wikipedia)
- Thread starter
- #67
Howard Gibson
Senior Airman
Nifty,
I would have though an Fw190 could be easily converted to a carrier based aircraft. It had most of the qualities you want in carrier based, including sturdy landing gear.
