WW2: Why was the 9th Air Force given P51 ins6tead of giving them to the 8th Air Force in 1943? (1 Viewer)

[Intrafinesse]

The 8th Air Force needed long range escorts, and the 9th Air Force could have used the P47 in a tactical role instead.
By 1943 I think the P51s had, or were getting, the Rolls Royce Merlin engine. By June 1943 would it not have made sense to send all P51 to the 8th rather than give some to the 9th?

 

[Greg Boeser]

The Fighter Groups assigned to the 9th were slated for low level tactical operations. The aircraft available for that as they were being formed were the P-40 and Allison engined P-51. Neither possessed the high altitude or range capability needed for escorting bombers to Germany at 25-30,000'. The Merlin Mustang changed that equation, but it was quicker to transition the groups already training on P-51s to the newer aircraft than converting groups training on P-47s. Once in England the two air forces recognized the suitability of the Merlin Mustang P-51B/C for long range, high altitude escort and arranged to loan the Mustang groups to the Eighth.
In a similar vein, the Eighth divested itself of it's four groups of B-26s to focus on long range, high altitude bombing.

 

[SaparotRob]

Good question, though.

 

[SaparotRob]

Greg Boeser Hey Greg, as long as you are here, do you know the French word for the "V" in the "CV" designation for aircraft carriers?
I don't want to rely on Wikipedia so much.
A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Do I look like I speak French?
CV is the US Navy designator for an aircraft carrier.
The C is for cruiser, the V is for heavier than air aircraft. The first carriers commisioned were built on cruiser hulls banned by the post WWI naval treaties.
French is probably something like le portmanteau de avions.

 

[EwenS]

Greg Boeser Hey Greg, as long as you are here, do you know the French word for the "V" in the "CV" designation for aircraft carriers?
I don't want to rely on Wikipedia so much.
A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

The French designation for their carriers is "Porte-Avions". Hence the use of the "PA" usually followed by a year number in their designs that never got built. Helicopter carriers or "Porte-Helicopteres" carry "PH" designations.

Earlier this year they announced that their next carrier the "Porte-Avions de Nouvelle Generation", or PANG for short, would be named "France Libre".

 

[drgondog]

The 8th Air Force needed long range escorts, and the 9th Air Force could have used the P47 in a tactical role instead.
By 1943 I think the P51s had, or were getting, the Rolls Royce Merlin engine. By June 1943 would it not have made sense to send all P51 to the 8th rather than give some to the 9th?

General Gordon Saville was CG and Chief, Air Defense on Arnold's staff at Hq. He was also the near ultimate authority on which role each fighter would play and where to send them. He was Not a fan of the Mustang and tried to give the P-51A to the French Air Force in MTO.

He was over ruled by Plans Operational Requirements and directed the P-51A to tactical role to replace the A-36. When the Merlin based P-51B arrived he tasked them in same role to 9th AF to replace the P-39 equipped FG destined for Operation Overlord. This was during the period (late spring/Summer 1943) when both Eaker and Lovett were appealing to Arnold for both the P-38/P-51B as long range escort.

Arnold directed Saville to prioritize the P-51B for ETO and appealed to Portal to return Mustang III to SSF-ETO. Eaker at first naïvely believed it would make no difference whether 8th or 9th AF as he believed he would have control of P-51B equipped FG for 8th AF escort in the Operation Argument. He was wrong, Air Marshal Sir Leigh-Mallory (2TAC) and Brereton 9th AF wanted to control them and the 357th and 363rd coming to the ETO in fall 1943.

It took Spaatz, Portal, Arnold to sort it out. Following that conversation it was agreed that 9th FC including the 357/363FG plus all P-47D equipped FG would be subordinate to 8th AF controls through mid-May 1944. In addition the 8th AF traded 358FG (P-47s) for 357FG (P-51B) in January 1944. Portal did return a block of Mustang III/P-51B-5 to AAF in December, 1943.