WWII Airplane Skin - Soviet or German?

Hello! I am a member of War Relics Forum as well. I posted a piece from my collection that I need help identifying. I have gotten one opinion from the guys there, but would like to see what y'all think about it since aircraft is y'alls specialty. I picked up this section of airplane skin a couple of years ago from another collector. I've bought many things from him over the years when he's cleaning out his own collection. This piece I grabbed from him because I really liked the way it looked (I think rivets on military items are awesome) and thought it would be a nice addition to my own collection. All he could tell me was that it was dug at Stalingrad so he assumed it was either from a WWII Soviet or German airplane. From the other forum, we think it is Soviet. Just from what I read, most German aircraft used flush rivets on the outside of the plane. Is that right?

I realize figuring out the actual aircraft would be a needle-in-a-haystack situation, but that's not really what I'm after (though it would be neat to know that). All I am really looking for is validation on the nationality of the airplane based on its construction. Any thoughts or suggestions on how I can tell? Rivet shape or size? Paint color? Construction of the stringer on the back? Distance between where the two stringers were? Gauge of the metal? Any input is appreciated.

The overall piece is roughly 28"x12". The distance between where the one stringer is and the other would have been about 12" or 13" (the second stringer/armature piece is gone, but rivets remain). To me, the rivets on the outside look like Brazier rivets and the inside like Flat rivets. It doesn't look like the rivets have any head markings, but it is harder to tell on the front because of the paint. The stringer looks like a "C" or "C-channel" stringer. I apologize in advance if I have messed up any terminology or misidentified something else for the stringer...I am completely out of my depth in this category of collecting. This is only based on what I have tried to research myself.

Thank you,
-Robyn


Pictures below. Let me know if I need to photo or measure anything else.

Front


Close-Up, Front






Rivet, Front Side



Back


Back, Close-Ups




Rivet, Close-Up on Back


Armature/Stringer Details




Top View, Metal Thickness

Look for part numbers and inspection stamps (but ignore a circle containing an H with a superimposed T, that is a heat treat stamp) as they will be the best means of identifying your parts. The angle brackets on the stringer and the stringer itself should have numbers and stamps though they could be on the attached face so not visible. The structure could be off many aircraft from any country so part numbers and inspection stamps are your best bet.

Going by the paint I would suggest it could well be American.

MiTasol said:

Look for part numbers and inspection stamps (but ignore a circle containing an H with a superimposed T, that is a heat treat stamp) as they will be the best means of identifying your parts. The angle brackets on the stringer and the stringer itself should have numbers and stamps though they could be on the attached face so not visible. The structure could be off many aircraft from any country so part numbers and inspection stamps are your best bet.

Going by the paint I would suggest it could well be American.

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Thank you so much for responding! I will be sure to take a look to see if there are any markings. Yes, I had thought it could be American-made too. I know the US sent several different aircraft to USSR for Lend-Lease and then after involvement in the war. There was a healthy amount of them that would have been around for Stalingrad. I was discussing that possiblity with the member of the other forum.

If I make out any numbers or stamps, I'll let you know and post pictures. I really appreciate your help!

MiTasol said:

Look for part numbers and inspection stamps (but ignore a circle containing an H with a superimposed T, that is a heat treat stamp) as they will be the best means of identifying your parts. The angle brackets on the stringer and the stringer itself should have numbers and stamps though they could be on the attached face so not visible. The structure could be off many aircraft from any country so part numbers and inspection stamps are your best bet.

Going by the paint I would suggest it could well be American.

Click to expand...

MiTasol, you're a genius!! I found two stamps on the inside of the stringer. None on the angle bracket though. Here it is:



So, what do I look up (and/or where) to figure out what the markings mean?

Thank you so much, I'm so excited about this development! I feel like such an idiot for not thinking to look for markings.

-Robyn

Great. The one on the left is a factory inspection stamp and the symbol in the top half will identify the factory.
Unfortunately I can not read Russian but Baball does, or knows someone who does. If I did this right he is now aware of this thread.

MiTasol said:

Great. The one on the left is a factory inspection stamp and the symbol in the top half will identify the factory.
Unfortunately I can not read Russian but Baball does, or knows someone who does. If I did this right he is now aware of this thread.

Click to expand...

The left stamp indicates that this skin is russian as it reads D-4/14. Also, I don't speak Russian but I use the russian keyboard from lexilogos and translate the text through DeepL, although I am slowly starting to understand technical words without the help of a translator.

MiTasol and Baball, y'all are the best!! Seriously! I'm so excited just to know that it truly is Russian-made! Thank you both so much!

I don't suppose there's any sort of list of what factory used what symbols? That's probably a very off-chance, but I figured I'd ask.

Either way, I am quite happy to have this mystery solved for me! Thank you so much!

I do not know of any list but recently someone here posted a link to Russian manuals a few days ago available at a Russian restoration site but I cannot find it again. I will keep looking

I did however find that there appears to be a native Russian speaker on line so hopefully he can help. Hopefully the system will notify him but if not you can PM him and ask him to look at this thread
Андрей

Just found the site again Aviarestorer.ru (and I have bookmarked it)

If you use a translation program like giggle translate on the site you should be able to make sense of it.

I would suggest writing a request in English then using giggle to translate it and warn that you have done so. I would post to the Friendship and cooperation link.

Please post the results here.

MiTasol said:

Just found the site again Aviarestorer.ru (and I have bookmarked it)

If you use a translation program like giggle translate on the site you should be able to make sense of it.

I would suggest writing a request in English then using giggle to translate it and warn that you have done so. I would post to the Friendship and cooperation link.

Please post the results here.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much! I will give that a try. I really appreciate all of your help with this. Seriously, you've been awesome!

Actually the thanks should go to Baball as he was the one who originally posted the link that I could not find

MiTasol said:

Actually the thanks should go to Baball as he was the one who originally posted the link that I could not find

Click to expand...

Then thank you very much, Baball! You guys are awesome!

Thank you all! I went to the Russian forum that was suggested to me. Then, someone on that forum recommended me to a different Russian forum. A few different members helped, and bounced me a round to different sections they thought would be beneficial, and we finally got it figured out!

The technological hallmarks on the stringer are from of the USSR aircraft Plant number 1, and based on where the plane skin was found, the piece is most likely from an IL-2. I'm so excited! I've been working on and off of this research for months. Thank y'all so much. Your help has been truly appreciated. I am including the link to the second Russian forum, specifically their "Equipment and Armament of the Second World War: Aviation" section, in case anyone can ever use their help on Soviet aircraft. They were very informative:

Авиация - ПО "Тризна"

Many thanks!
-Robyn

Great result. My congratulations on that part of your project being completed.

Thanks for closing the loop.