WWII artillery/anti tank gun....which was best?

[Lucky13]

Just thought that I'd education in field artillery and anti tank guns. In these two categories, which piece would you consider raise itself above the rest, when it comes to mobility, speed of getting the first shot fired/pack things up and move to the next place, hits on target....etc. etc.?

Happy Pak-40 gunners after hitting a Russian T-34...

 

[timshatz]

Kind of two different catagories. If you want the best AT gun, go with the 88. Still has a reputation.

In terms of most effective and widely used, go with the US 105 Howitzer or British 25lber. Both good guns and refined weapons (breach on the US Howitzer had something like 7 moving parts whereas the German variety had 45).

If you want the most effective in making life miserable for the other side/make enemy generals say "Boy, I wish I had that"/step towards the future, I'd go with the US SP 155 Gun. Not the howitzer, the rifle. That thing was murder. And, very mobile. Better than the Soviet 152 Mobile in that it was a rifle and not a howitzer type.

 

[Lucky13]

True... Just wanted to see which people consider to be the best artillery piece, and which they consider to be the best anti tank gun of WWII....

 

[comiso90]

nice footage of the M12

991st Field Artillery Bn and the M12 155mm SP Gun

imagine that beast in a direct fire role..



.

 

[Lucky13]

Enough to give you plenty of headache....

 

[Soren]

Hmmm... best in terms of punch is the 88mm PaK43, but it was way more powerful than needed, so I'm going to say the 75mm PaK40.

 

[machine shop tom]

I'd have to say the 75mm Pak40 or the Russian 76.2mm model 1942.

Both were effective anti-armor weapons that were far more mobile than the 88mm or similar weapons.

tom

 

[trackend]

A.T Id plump for the 17 pounder it was quicker to unlimber and get into action and was much easier to conceal than the 88 yet was still capable of knocking out enemy armour.
I agree that the 25 pounder and the 105 where both great artillery guns IMO the 105 being the quicker to get into action
That said as an all round field piece IMO the 88 was by far the best ART weapon of WW2.

 

[timshatz]

nice footage of the M12

991st Field Artillery Bn and the M12 155mm SP Gun

imagine that beast in a direct fire role..

I read of two accounts where that happened. One on Pelelui when the 7th Marines were trying to take a ridge. Tried once and we repulsed. Brought in a ton of spotters and picked out the Japanese positions. Then, they unlimbered some 155s at ranges of around 800 yds and blew the hell out of the ridge. Said the blasts were so fierce there was schrapnel landing in the gun pits.

Another was going through the Sigfried Line. An infantry unit was repulsed in their attack and trying to figure a way through when an SP155 rolled up to the situation. The LT in charge asked if they needed and help and proceeded to blast bunker after bunker with this thing (even let some of the infantry pull the lanyard). Even if the round didn't penetrate, it scrambled the brains of the Germans inside. After they'd shot up everything they could see, the Artillery limbered up and clattered away. The infantry were very thankful.

 

[comiso90]

I read of two accounts where that happened. One on Pelelui when the 7th Marines were trying to take a ridge. Tried once and we repulsed. Brought in a ton of spotters and picked out the Japanese positions. Then, they unlimbered some 155s at ranges of around 800 yds and blew the hell out of the ridge. Said the blasts were so fierce there was schrapnel landing in the gun pits.

Another was going through the Sigfried Line. An infantry unit was repulsed in their attack and trying to figure a way through when an SP155 rolled up to the situation. The LT in charge asked if they needed and help and proceeded to blast bunker after bunker with this thing (even let some of the infantry pull the lanyard). Even if the round didn't penetrate, it scrambled the brains of the Germans inside. After they'd shot up everything they could see, the Artillery limbered up and clattered away. The infantry were very thankful.

Thanks for posting I was goona ask for examples.

Too bad there were only about 200 of them built..

.

 

[Soren]

If you want the most effective in making life miserable for the other side/make enemy generals say "Boy, I wish I had that"/step towards the future, I'd go with the US SP 155 Gun. Not the howitzer, the rifle. That thing was murder. And, very mobile. Better than the Soviet 152 Mobile in that it was a rifle and not a howitzer type.

The Long Tom was good but not really revolutionary, I mean what about the 150mm K-18, 173mm K-18 210mm K-38 ?

The 150mm K-18 L/55 is lighter and has a longer range than the 155mm L/45 Long Tom.

The 173mm K-18 L/50 weighs roughly the same but has a much longer range and more potent shell.

The 210mm K-38 weighs more, but its range is 10km longer and the shell is enormously powerful.


As a long range heavy artillery piece the 173mm K-18 is probably the best of WW2.

 

[parsifal]

Its difficult to give a single answer about the "best" piece of artillery or AT, because there are so many different scenarios and capabilities to consider. For example, all of the nominees so far would be less than ideal in jungle terrain. For this the lowly 70 mm type 92 howitzer would probably be the best wartime artillery for that terrain, for the simple reason that it could be manhandled into the terrain whereas most other guns could not, and required no transport other than the gun crew carrying it. So the analysis needs to be broken down somewhat before a proper answer could be put togther

The list in my opinion should include the following

ATG
Best Lt (50mm or smaller)
Medium (51-75mm)
Hvy 76mm +

AA
Lt up to 40 mm
Hvy (41mm+)

Artillery
Field
Hvy
Mtn
Abn
Jungle

Special

Best Rocket artillery


Perhaps the type that could provide the most effective service in the most categories should be considered "the best", rather than just thinking in terms of just the one scenario. heaviest or most specialised is not always the best

 

[timshatz]

If we were talking about jungle terrain, I think some kind of Recoiless Rifle would be the best option. Easiest to move around and with plenty of whack to it.

Soren, were any (or maybe all of them) SPs? Was thinking the combination of the SP with the Firepower made is a very effective system. Agree it was evolutionary more so than revolutionary.

 

[parsifal]

A recoilless gun is a flat trajectory weapon that often cannot fire indirect. Given that jungle is such closed terrain this places a severe limitation on range of a recoilless gun, and often prevents its use altogether. A howitzer is a far more useful weapon in the jungle.

The US possessed a 75 Pack Howitzer, which was useful, but still required a mule or two, or at least a lot of men to move it. The CW had a shortened 25 pounder, which was even worse when it came to transport. The little 70mm was superior to a mortar, far more mobile than its allied counterparts, and moveable by a relatively small number of men (about 6 from memory). It was a high trajectory weapon, meaning it could be used to deliever plunging fire over the top of the tree canopy.

The only weapon the allies possessed with all of these qualities were mortars, and these were badly outclassed insofar as range was concerned

 

[Glider]

Must agree with Soren re the 173 as the best heavy Long Range piece but for Jungle I would go for the 75mm pack Howitzer.

The Jap 70mm I believe had a short range matched by the 4.2 in mortars and the 75mm had a better range but did weigh more.

AT Gun the 17pd takes some beating, others were more powerful but we were into overkill situations and they tended to be bigger targets not as easily hidden.

Medium Artillery the 25pd is a good shout as is the German 105 not much between them.

 

[timshatz]

A recoilless gun is a flat trajectory weapon that often cannot fire indirect. Given that jungle is such closed terrain this places a severe limitation on range of a recoilless gun, and often prevents its use altogether. A howitzer is a far more useful weapon in the jungle.

The US possessed a 75 Pack Howitzer, which was useful, but still required a mule or two, or at least a lot of men to move it. The CW had a shortened 25 pounder, which was even worse when it came to transport. The little 70mm was superior to a mortar, far more mobile than its allied counterparts, and moveable by a relatively small number of men (about 6 from memory). It was a high trajectory weapon, meaning it could be used to deliever plunging fire over the top of the tree canopy.

The only weapon the allies possessed with all of these qualities were mortars, and these were badly outclassed insofar as range was concerned

Was thinking of a direct fire mode on this one. Bunker busting and taking out caves.

Would hate to have to drag any artillery through a jungle. Brutal work.

 

[Soren]

Heavy Medium artillery don't belong in jungles, mortars and such are allot more effective here.

 

[Soren]

Forgot to mention the 150mm K-39 by Krupp.

This gun fired a 43 kg high explsove projectile at 890 m/s to a maximum range of 25,420m, slightly longer than the 150mm K-18, and it was lighter as-well by some 290 kg.

 

[Glider]

I would argue that Howitzers have a major role to play with the ability to fire over hills and hit the reverse slopes. When its difficult to move artillery, range is also important.

 

[Soren]

Some pictures of the 173mm Kanone 18

And the 210mm Kanone 38