oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
Forget the changing the date for the Midway confrontation.
in posting on Parsifal's WW2 naval commander thread, I remembered that RAdm Yamaguchi Commander IJN's CARDIV 2 consisting of Soryu and Hiryu told Nagumo to launch the readied strike with whatever ordnance they had rather than delaying to recover the morning strike and to reload his Kates for anti-ship action. had Yamaguchi been in command or had Nagumo listened to his more aggressive subordinate the battle would probably have been very different.
Time line from: Timeline: Battle of Midway
0705 The first US attacks launched from Midway arrive over Kido Butai.
0810 Vindicators make unsuccessful attack on IJN BBs.
0820 Scout reports presence of USN CV within 200 miles.
Yamaguchi argues with Nagumo about whether to immediately launch strike against USN CVs or await recovery of the Midway strike force while rearming the Kates.
0837 IJN CVs turn into wind for Midway strike force recovery
0918 IJN Midway strike recovery complete
0920 Hornet's VT-8 attacks forcing Kido Butai to maneuver to avoid torpedos.
If Yamaguchi had attacked commenced launching an attack at 0837, he would have had:
Hiryu: 18 D31A Type 99 VAL VB
Soryu: 18 D31A Type 99 VAL VB
Akagi: 17 B4N2 Type 97 Kate VT (mixed armament: bombs or torpedoes
Kaga: 26 B4N2 Type 97 Kate VT (mixed armament: bombs or torpedoes)
with perhaps a dozen or more escorts
We know what the IJN VB did to the Yorktown. Doubling the number of VB and including a well attended escort (undistracted by retiring SBDs) would almost certainly have had serious consequences for the USN CVs if they had found more than just the Yorktown. The Kates, carrying mixed ordnance might not have been able to mount their classic anvil attack and the accuracy problems inherent in high altitude drops against maneuvering targets might have spared the USN any fatal hits.
Some additional considerations:
Would the Midway Strike aircraft had sufficient fuel to be recovered considering the continuous attacks by USN Torpedo bombers or would they all have been lost, leaving only those a/c launched again the USN CVs and CAP?
If recovered before the USN SBDs arrived, would they have been subject to refueling and rearming? In that event, the results of the historic battle may have played out historically with the loss of at least 2 or even 3 IJN CVs. If not, and the SBDs hit IJN CVs with empty hangars, the inflicted damage may not have been fatal although perhaps disabling for flight ops. The returning IJN strike against the USN may have suffered from insufficient flight decks to accommodate their numbers or perhaps their losses over the USN fleet would have compensated for the loss of operable flight decks. In any event, I suspect after the first round, the IJN may have been forced to retire due to aviation losses as would the USN, most likely. At least that's one possibility. Both sides would likely have been substantially bloodied, with perhaps fewer USN and some IJN CVs surviving.
It is certainly an interesting what if scenario.
in posting on Parsifal's WW2 naval commander thread, I remembered that RAdm Yamaguchi Commander IJN's CARDIV 2 consisting of Soryu and Hiryu told Nagumo to launch the readied strike with whatever ordnance they had rather than delaying to recover the morning strike and to reload his Kates for anti-ship action. had Yamaguchi been in command or had Nagumo listened to his more aggressive subordinate the battle would probably have been very different.
Time line from: Timeline: Battle of Midway
0705 The first US attacks launched from Midway arrive over Kido Butai.
0810 Vindicators make unsuccessful attack on IJN BBs.
0820 Scout reports presence of USN CV within 200 miles.
Yamaguchi argues with Nagumo about whether to immediately launch strike against USN CVs or await recovery of the Midway strike force while rearming the Kates.
0837 IJN CVs turn into wind for Midway strike force recovery
0918 IJN Midway strike recovery complete
0920 Hornet's VT-8 attacks forcing Kido Butai to maneuver to avoid torpedos.
If Yamaguchi had attacked commenced launching an attack at 0837, he would have had:
Hiryu: 18 D31A Type 99 VAL VB
Soryu: 18 D31A Type 99 VAL VB
Akagi: 17 B4N2 Type 97 Kate VT (mixed armament: bombs or torpedoes
Kaga: 26 B4N2 Type 97 Kate VT (mixed armament: bombs or torpedoes)
with perhaps a dozen or more escorts
We know what the IJN VB did to the Yorktown. Doubling the number of VB and including a well attended escort (undistracted by retiring SBDs) would almost certainly have had serious consequences for the USN CVs if they had found more than just the Yorktown. The Kates, carrying mixed ordnance might not have been able to mount their classic anvil attack and the accuracy problems inherent in high altitude drops against maneuvering targets might have spared the USN any fatal hits.
Some additional considerations:
Would the Midway Strike aircraft had sufficient fuel to be recovered considering the continuous attacks by USN Torpedo bombers or would they all have been lost, leaving only those a/c launched again the USN CVs and CAP?
If recovered before the USN SBDs arrived, would they have been subject to refueling and rearming? In that event, the results of the historic battle may have played out historically with the loss of at least 2 or even 3 IJN CVs. If not, and the SBDs hit IJN CVs with empty hangars, the inflicted damage may not have been fatal although perhaps disabling for flight ops. The returning IJN strike against the USN may have suffered from insufficient flight decks to accommodate their numbers or perhaps their losses over the USN fleet would have compensated for the loss of operable flight decks. In any event, I suspect after the first round, the IJN may have been forced to retire due to aviation losses as would the USN, most likely. At least that's one possibility. Both sides would likely have been substantially bloodied, with perhaps fewer USN and some IJN CVs surviving.
It is certainly an interesting what if scenario.
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