You are in charge of the Luftwaffe: July 1940

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by wiking85, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicagoland Area
    #1 wiking85, Jan 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    As the title says, you are in charge of the Luftwaffe right after the Fall of France, but before the Battle of Britain.
    You will have no interference from anyone with your conduct of the air war against Britain; how do you fight the British? Let's say that you don't have to conduct the Battle of Britain if you don't want, but you have to take the fight to the British in July in some way and step it up. You have until January before the weather affects you ability to conduct operations over Britain and March until units begin transferring to other theaters. All offensive operations end by June 1st 1941.

    Here are some OOBs if you need:
    Luftwaffe Order of Battle August 1940 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Luftwaffe Campaign Orders of Battle

    How would you conduct the air war against the British Isles?
     
  2. meatloaf109

    meatloaf109 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    6,688
    Likes Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Occupation:
    plumbing "pro" at Lowes in Franklin N.C.
    Location:
    north carolina
    Simple. Bomb the radar sites and the airfields. Don't get sidetracked on vengence attacks against London. Keep the pressure on the RAF.
     
  3. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,525
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    #3 stona, Jan 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    I agree,keep the pressure on the RAF and dominate the Channel. The luftwaffe was historically successful over the Channel in 1940.

    Tactically,fit drop tanks to the Bf 109s. The technology and capability were there.

    Don't be sidetracked by nonsense about invasion. The clear strategic objective should be to defeat the RAF and force Britain to the negotiating table.

    Steve
     
  4. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Transfer most of Luftflotte 2 and Luftflotte 3 to Sicily. During summer 1940 that's enough muscle to completely eradicate British airpower and ships from the central Med.

    7th Flieger Division will reinforce the Italian invasion of Malta.

    The central Med should now be an Italian lake. Transfer 12 motorized / mechanized divisions to North Africa. Afrika Korps x 4.

    Panzerarmee Afrika will drive east, seizing the entire Med coast all the way to the Turkish border.

    Next step depends on success of German diplomacy. If Britain signs a peace treaty then Panzerarmee Afrika won't need to invade Iraq.

    Panzerarmee Afrika gives Germany enough diplomatic clout in the Med that Greece and Yugoslavia can probably be neutralized by diplomacy in return for German guarantee of borders. This means Germany won't need to commit significant military forces to the Balkans.

    With Britain and France no longer a threat Germany can take a tougher diplomatic stance towards Stalin's Soviet Union. Perhaps the Red Army should withdraw to July 1939 border before Germany decides to reinstate Brest-Litovsk treaty borders.
     
  5. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicagoland Area
    You just have the Luftwaffe to command and you have to stick to the British Isles as part of this scenario.
    Also the Afrika Korps was as large as it could be, because supply was far too tenuous in Libya to allow for even the forces that were there historically.
     
  6. michaelmaltby

    michaelmaltby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    614
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Toronto
    Radar sites were notoriously difficult to take out of action for very long ... Ju-87's are out of the question where ever you don't own the air ... so - as the USAAF did with the P-51, you must force the RAF into the air again and again - feints and diversions striking tactical targets - but you must gain air superiority and that means mostly fighters against fighters - and the German pilots have to defeat "the few". If even a few Me-109's carry bombs and the rest have drop tanks the British will be forced into the air to defend home airspace. Failure to meet the German challenge will discredit further the British military (after Dunkirk) and have serious consequences. Once air superiority has been achieved - air fields in shambles, reserves diminished, then and only then does the real bombing campaign begin ... and a push for peace talks. If the world sees the RAF fighters defeated in battle and the Germans seeking some kind of an Armitice, public opinion will be more sympathetic to the German side

    The FW-190 'tip-and-run' raids in the later years were annoying and nasty -- if the FW-190 had been available in 1940 it would have been the ideal tool.

    Bodenplatte in 1940 makes more sense in 1940 than it does in 1945.

    MM
     
  7. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicagoland Area
    I'm surprised no one has suggested starting the Blitz in August and focusing on the major Western Ports like Liverpool:
    Liverpool Blitz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  8. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Why?

    1940 RAF was armed to the teeth in the British Isles. Bombing British Isles will just hand Britain an easy victory and cost the Luftwaffe a couple thousand aircraft.
     
  9. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    That would work only if the German Navy had procured an adequate stockpile of aerial mines and a modern aerial torpedo. Won't work with historical German Navy ammunition stockpile of 1940.
     
  10. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,525
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Luftwaffe came close in late August 1940 to defeating the RAF.
    The original question was what would you do as commander of the Luftwaffe with a free hand to conduct the air war against Britain?
    As my old teachers used to say before examination days, "always read the question"
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  11. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicagoland Area
    #11 wiking85, Jan 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    As the Luftwaffe commander you still have to follow the overall strategy of OKW, which in 1940 is to take the fight to Britain. Historically this was the framework that the Luftwaffe had to labor under, so attacking Britain proper to bring them to heel is the approved strategy that you are required to follow.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz#British_ports
    Also the night Blitz cost the Luftwaffe under 400 aircraft from October 1940 through May 1941.
    Fighting the Battle of Britain as the LW did historically cost them nearly 2000 aircraft, but you've got the chance to reorient the strategy.

    By August 1940 the LW had over 1500 mines and by 1941 there were some 5000 on hand. The big problem was the Germans using them too early and the resulting capture of a magnetic mine in November 1939. If they had waited until May 1940 it would have been devastating.
    Of course if the Germans had requested the Regio Aeronautica had sent over their naval torpedo units instead of strategic bombers, that would have helped significantly...
     
  12. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    41,768
    Likes Received:
    684
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A&P - Aircraft Technician
    Location:
    USA/Germany
    #12 DerAdlerIstGelandet, Jan 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    Yeah but you can conduct the air war against Britain wherever the British are. They were in North Africa were they not? It even said, you don't have to conduct the BoB.

    Maybe the question should have been more specific...
     
  13. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicagoland Area
    Alright, I changed the POD to reflect that the campaign is only directed against the British Isles until June 1st 1941.
     
  14. vinnye

    vinnye Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    Maths teacher
    Location:
    Barnsley, UK
    The LW had tried to draw the RAF into an unequal battle over ther Channel by attacking shipping with bombers that had heavy fighter cover. I believe that the RAF were informed about the concentration of fighters and ordered not to engage - I may be wrong here and am open to correction.
    This lead to the LW having to change its emphasis and try to destroy the radar stations and then the airfields - which came close to succeeding!
     
  15. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Do nothing.
     
  16. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicagoland Area
    #16 wiking85, Jan 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    Unilateral truce? What then?

    It would come at a serious cost to keep those stations down, because they could only be knocked out with a direct hit. Also the Germans, after they knocked them down, were fooled by the continued broadcasting by the British to mimic the station being active, so they felt they couldn't knock them out for long. What is to prevent the LW from falling for that again?

    But even if you succeed, what is the cost going to be to knock out the RAF airfields in South England? What about them being able to continue if they have to withdraw from some of them? What do you do when you succeed? Sea Lion? There is more to winning some tactical or operational victory if the invasion strategy is a non-starter.
    What can the Luftwaffe do to ensure Britain's surrender in the absence of Sea Lion?
     
  17. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Why not? Better than risking your air force on a folly.
     
  18. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    If that were true Britain would not have shipped an armored brigade from England to Egypt during August 1940.


    Since I am forced to do this the hard way....
    Daylight air attacks will take place only over the English Channel. Main air battle will be at night with the intent to close Port of London and Liverpool to British shipping.

    Purchase Order #1.
    Procure 100 Fw-187 long range fighter aircraft per month. As soon as we have two operational and full strength Jagdgeschwader the Luftwaffe can consider daylight bomber raids over England. Otherwise there will be no daylight attacks over England.

    Purchase Order #2.
    Procure 40 long range Fw-200 maritime attack aircraft per month rather then the historical 4. When the Luftwaffe have two operational and full strength Kampfgeschwader they will make a serious dent in British shipping. One Fw-200 KG will operate from Norway. The other Fw200 KG will operate from Cherbourg Peninsula.

    Purchase Order #3.
    Procure 5,000 aerial mines per month for use against British seaports.

    Purchase Order #4.
    Procure 1,000 F5B aerial torpedoes per month for use against British shipping.

    Purchase Order #5.
    Procure 2,000 300 liter drop tanks per month. They will extend combat radius and loiter time of our aircraft.
     
  19. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Chicagoland Area
    You have to fight the war, because the British are going to attack you if you do nothing and are going to draw in the US. They refuse to negotiate and are blockading you, so time is not on your side.
     
  20. The Basket

    The Basket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Time is on Germanys side in 1940. Undisputed masters of Europe. Britain is the one fearing invasion.

    The bombing campaign in 1940 was very poor and with the Soviets help the blockade is worthless.

    Hitler was no more powerful than June 1940. He was at his zenith.
     
Loading...

Share This Page